first X3 impressions + first Roguey's mod impressions

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misterpackman

misterpackman avatar

(3)

Posted 13 years ago.

Barely started playing X3R+roguey's mod after recommendations from Roguey himself Smile

And I kind of felt like writing a post saying not that much at all...

I am quite enjoying myself so far after 10hours or so. I specially like the way a bigger ship is not always a better ship. I sold my starting M4 and transfered to a Split M5 which was originally for speed and exploration purposes.
But what a surprise to realize that even with (or because of?) my tiny ship and tiny guns, no enemy fighter stands a chance. Even an M3! With your speed advantage, you simply can avoid all incoming shots Smile

Just have to be a bit careful of those pesky Novas that can shoot backwards.

So here I am having a good time looting from baddies with my cheap M5. And I am starting to understand how far I am from owning any of those bigger ships like an M6, let alone an M1 or M2. But how far am I expectedly? Hours (seems like not)? Days? Weeks?
If you have any, what is your advice for spending my early monnies efficiently?

In the same time, I have tried to play with scripts to try those bigger ships (that I will not get nearly soon enough). And I am already a bit worried about one of the additions from the mod: the M0 class.
I seem to understand that the bigger vanilla ships (M1 and M2) although very powerful in their own role have their weaknesses: the M2 is a kind of tanker that can soak up plenty of damage but needs an escort of its own to deal the damage and defend itself from smaller foes, whereas the M1 provides exactly that and can make good use of an M2 to take the damage.
Its balanced and I like it.

But what about the M0 (say the Goliath)? It seems that it has all the advantages (shields, firepower, can deploy fighters) for about the price of an M1 + an M2.
Doesn't it make the M1 and M2 classes obsolete on the long term?

Roguey

Trueguey (22)

Posted 13 years ago.

That's good to hear that you are enjoying yourself with X3.

In answer to your M0 question - yes they powerful, but not that much. An Argon Goliath costs around 200 million while an Argon Titan costs around 70 million. So say 1 Goliath cost 3 Titans. Now who would win?

3 Titan's = 114 guns (38 x 3), 27GJ shields (9GJ X 3)
1 Goliath = 72 guns (72 x 1), 16GJ shields,

So the Goliath has less guns, less shielding and is slower. The Goliath can bare less weapons at once, because 3 Titans will have more guns facing each way (24 vs 12, apart from top or bottom 12 vs 12). The Goliath isn't that strong compared over cost.

There are 2 enemy M0's too, Xenon and Khaak!

misterpackman

misterpackman avatar

(3)

Posted 13 years ago.

I totally agree with this economic argument.

But still, I think it has its own problems:
I assume that in the late game, money is not a problem at all, right?
(correct me if I am wrong because I am still light years from this stage)
Therefore the focus becomes building balanced and elegant fleets rather than trying to save pennies.

For instance, you cannot replace all your fighters with M6s or M2s even if you can easily afford it. It would just not make a balanced/responsive army. However, it seems that the Goliath alone makes the whole M1-M2 range obsolete (financial considerations aside). I fear it might not be ideal.

I believe that every class should fit in a strategic role, even if overlapping to an extent is unavoidable and even desirable (otherwise, it makes strategic choices too obvious and prevents real alternatives).

Well, these are just a few noob considerations. And sorry if I am a kind of a balance freak: I think your options just getting better is not a good thing. They have to become more diverse but new options should not make older ones obsolete...

Maybe a solution would be to make the Goliath unique (I don't know if it is feasible though).

BTW, having enemy M0s is a totally different issue.
I think it is brilliant as it just extends the challenge in the late game.

And again, I am just a noob speaking so sorry if I make silly statements. Smile

(And just to make things clear, I am not criticizing your work Smile

I think your mod is fantastic and one can only bow to the astronomical amount of efforts that you must have spent in it. I am just trying to figure out the kind of philosophy behind the game)

EDIT: BTW, the simluation you propose is not that obvious: we also have to take into account that members of the Titan fleet might start to die before the Goliath dies making the fleet weaker. There is a dynamic elements in there.
Plus we have to assume that all 3 titans can engage the goliath simultaneously.
Plus if the titans are surounding the goliath, this results in more of the goliath's guns beging able to hit.

Roguey

Trueguey (22)

Posted 13 years ago.

Hi there,

I know what you mean - the M0 does do the roles of M1 and M2's. X3 has some hard limits like gun and turrets counts, which can often limit things. I agree it would hard to know who would win (3 titans vs 1 Goliath) - depends on too many factors.

I wanted the M0 to be another tier above the M2, as for many players getting a M2 can be the end (M2 vs M2 and the player normally wins). However main reason for the M0 class was to have some 'scary' big ships which really effect the game-play (too often you see a capital and its gone soon afterwards). If you ever see a Khaak M0 or Xenon V, you normally want to run fast as you can! M0's offer big challenge to later players as well - you would struggle with 1 x M2 (no longer is getting a M2 is 'safe'). This hopefully adds some uniqueness to the ships and their roles.

So the M0 role was more for the enemy (hence 2 enemy M0, 1 Argon M0). Crip did an amazing job with those ships (Khaak M0 I did) - not to have them in the mod would of been crazy!

Sometimes things can exist which unbalance things or 'stick' out, this would be perfectly normal in real life. So why not in X3 for a change? the universe can become a little 'boring' and the M0's do a good job of really effecting the game. I wonder if anyone could take down a Xenon V and a Khaak M0, with one M2! If anyone does, I would be very interested in seeing that on youtube!

misterpackman

misterpackman avatar

(3)

Posted 13 years ago.

Ok, I get your point.
In any case, it is very good that more powerful threats are present for the late game.

Roguey

Trueguey (22)

Posted 13 years ago.

That's my thoughts exactly. The new buyable sectors and M0's should hopefully give you an reason to carry on with the game. I felt when I got an M2 that ive 'won' now its not even close! If a M0 jumps in, your M2 will look 'tiny' Smile

misterpackman

misterpackman avatar

(3)

Posted 13 years ago.

Btw, how do you buy these 3 sectors and where are they?
(or maybe you do not want to disclose the info...)

EDIT: ok, these are sigma kappa and theta. But how do you buy them?
I read that there is a buyable sector in the vanilla game. Is it the same way?

Roguey

Trueguey (22)

Posted 13 years ago.

This spoiler may help you:
- Buyable sectors,

The egosoft sector is hard to get!

misterpackman

misterpackman avatar

(3)

Posted 13 years ago.

I didn't realize you had a wiki.
Maybe it is not obvious enough?

Roguey

Trueguey (22)

Posted 13 years ago.

:laugh probably not by the sound of it. I'll have to promote the wiki a bit more.

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