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Station and Complex building is something I've never tried in any of the X3-TC games that I've played.
That is until now.
I have a Space Fuel Distillery (L), a Solar Power Plant (XL), and a Wheat Farm (L) in a new Mammoth (TL) I just bought. For the heck of it, I picked up 2 Complex Construction Kits. Picked up all this new stuff at the Shipyard in Legend's Home.
I'm moving down to the Unknown sector between Montalaar and New Income sectors. I'm on good terms with the pirate base there and figure it should be a good 'first attempt' at station (and then complex) building.
I will be expanding to use some of the asteroids in this sector in the near future.
I've read up a lot about stations and complexes--but there are a few "first" questions I have. I can't find the answer, or I just plain don't understand what's being said (the latter IS highly probable)
I would appreciate any help and/or directions to a good post/thread/site.
Unknown Sector set up -- I have 3 advanced satellites "lighting the way" from the West Gate to the East Gate.
There are 2 more advanced satellites in the southern part of the sector showing the asteroids and the pirate station.
1) Locating the Station(s). I read lots of posts saying that if you place an illegal products station in a pirate or unknown sector it should be fine--not attacked by military patrols or police. Then I've found a few posts that say this is not 100% true.
I'm going to guess that placing an illegal goods station, right in the middle of the 'transit lane' between the two Gates would not be a good idea.
-But should I place the Fuel Station on the southern side of the sector..on the pirate base side, or should I let the pirate compete with 'other' by placing it in the northern side of the sector?
-Do I need to high-light how to get to the station by using more advanced satellites or navigation satellites? Or would this be unnecessary?
2) Station Needs. For a player-owned station, the 'primary resources' are needed for the station to make the 'products'..but do they need the 'secondary resources' also? This is the one part I can't find any information on.
I've got a good grasp on complex building. But I may have some questions later on.
I'm going to build the three station without using the complex construction kits--at first. I have plenty of freighters and want to try using those to transfer resources.
I'll connect the stations later on...or not. Haven't decided yet.
Might just save the CCKs for a later complex.
Thanks ahead of time.....
Station and Complex Question(s)
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Station and Complex Question(s)
cjm3fl
Instruguey (13)
Instruguey (13)
Posted 12 years ago.
It's not what someone has done..it's about what they are about to do!
Sinxar
Cruguey (18)
Cruguey (18)
Posted 12 years ago.
1) Locating the Station(s). I read lots of posts saying that if you place an illegal products station in a pirate or unknown sector it should be fine--not attacked by military patrols or police. Then Ive found a few posts that say this is not 100% true.
- cjm3fl
- cjm3fl
They won't mess with it generally, unless you are hostile to a race next door, then they might come in looking for you and find your complex instead. No you don't need to setup nav sats or anything. they are really just for you. But in that sector I like to cover the gates and around the complex to see whats coming in when not in sector.
2) Station Needs. For a player-owned station, the primary resources are needed for the station to make the products..but do they need the secondary resources also? This is the one part I cant find any information on.
- cjm3fl
- cjm3fl
Secondaries are for NPC stations only.
There is a good video tutorial series in the stickies on the egosoft forums. One of them he is showing how to make a decent looking complex with the use of an advanced satellite. Its a good watch if you want an easy way to build complexes that look respectable.
Don't forget the complex construction calc. Its an invaluable tool for X players.
http://www.altanetworks.com/x3/x3tcocc.html
cjm3fl
Instruguey (13)
Instruguey (13)
Posted 12 years ago.
Thanks for your reply, Sinxar. It was very helpful and got me started on the right footing.
I've been over to egosoft site a number of times...it's kinda confusing to find what I go looking for.
And...I distract easily. Always checking out other posts that get my attention. And that a lot of posts/threads there.
I have seen that complex calculator before. I played around with it then and didn't exactly figure it out.
But with your post, I study it and learn how to use it.
I built a 13-station complex selling Space Weed and Space Fuel.
Since there is a Solar Power Plant XL attached, I have it selling energy cells also.
With the help if the calculator, the complex is totally self-sufficient.
Thanks again for your help!!
I've been over to egosoft site a number of times...it's kinda confusing to find what I go looking for.
And...I distract easily. Always checking out other posts that get my attention. And that a lot of posts/threads there.
I have seen that complex calculator before. I played around with it then and didn't exactly figure it out.
But with your post, I study it and learn how to use it.
I built a 13-station complex selling Space Weed and Space Fuel.
Since there is a Solar Power Plant XL attached, I have it selling energy cells also.
With the help if the calculator, the complex is totally self-sufficient.
Thanks again for your help!!
It's not what someone has done..it's about what they are about to do!
Sinxar
Cruguey (18)
Cruguey (18)
Posted 12 years ago.
got pics of it?
cjm3fl
Instruguey (13)
Instruguey (13)
Posted 12 years ago.
I'll see what I can do.
Haven't tried taking and posting pics here yet. But I have glanced over the posts about how to do it.
But I'll get to it...once I complete the disintegrator rifle complex I'm putting together in the same sector.
I'll take pics from both and post them here.
First complex isn't pretty...but it works!
I'm going to try to make this next one a little more linear...pleasing to the eye.
Haven't tried taking and posting pics here yet. But I have glanced over the posts about how to do it.
But I'll get to it...once I complete the disintegrator rifle complex I'm putting together in the same sector.
I'll take pics from both and post them here.
First complex isn't pretty...but it works!
I'm going to try to make this next one a little more linear...pleasing to the eye.
It's not what someone has done..it's about what they are about to do!
Roguey
Trueguey (22)
Trueguey (22)
Posted 12 years ago.
When building a complex, the two main factors are Ore and Silicon (being the most important). You will need scan around for these, as these will limit the maximum size of you complex in the end. If you dont have enough Silicon, your crystal fabs will slow and your power-plant will struggle. You may not need ore in some complexes, but if you plan to add any technology wares, your bound to need ore.
location of the complex should be in reach of where places who want to buy your goods, otherwise NPC's will have to travel far and may get killed before they reach your complex. NPC ships will also buy for the best price, regardless of quantity. Often setting a price of -1 (one lower than average) can be enough. It does not matter where in the sector you place your complex.
as for illegal goods, usually police ships will only scan, so you want to avoid any sectors with police, if your making illegal goods. Good places are usually unknown or pirate sectors, where these police ships dont exist. However these sectors arent defended too well, so if an enemy capital turns up then your have to defend your complex urself. Sometimes in Pirate sector you may get a rogue ship, so maybe unknown sectors might be best. Avoid putting your complex/stations near heavy traffic - unlikely but friendly capitals might fire on hostile/illegal goods ships. Somewhere like Freedoms Reach where there is no through traffic.
Complexes dont usually make great money until they are self-sufficient - ie. they dont require any resources, as they make them all themselves. The minimum for this, is the following:
- Silicon Mine L (dont bother with M's),
- Power (any size),
- Crystal Fab (i think its two M's for one M plant, and one L for an M plant),
- Bio-food station(like Argnu Beef, Soja Beans, sunrise flowers etc.),
- Food station (to turn your bio ware into food for your Crystal fab),
Complexes cost a lot in the short-term, however always make money behind the scenes. Your own TL is really required too - thought this can have other benefits too, like cargo/ship transporter.
anyway, help that helps.
location of the complex should be in reach of where places who want to buy your goods, otherwise NPC's will have to travel far and may get killed before they reach your complex. NPC ships will also buy for the best price, regardless of quantity. Often setting a price of -1 (one lower than average) can be enough. It does not matter where in the sector you place your complex.
as for illegal goods, usually police ships will only scan, so you want to avoid any sectors with police, if your making illegal goods. Good places are usually unknown or pirate sectors, where these police ships dont exist. However these sectors arent defended too well, so if an enemy capital turns up then your have to defend your complex urself. Sometimes in Pirate sector you may get a rogue ship, so maybe unknown sectors might be best. Avoid putting your complex/stations near heavy traffic - unlikely but friendly capitals might fire on hostile/illegal goods ships. Somewhere like Freedoms Reach where there is no through traffic.
Complexes dont usually make great money until they are self-sufficient - ie. they dont require any resources, as they make them all themselves. The minimum for this, is the following:
- Silicon Mine L (dont bother with M's),
- Power (any size),
- Crystal Fab (i think its two M's for one M plant, and one L for an M plant),
- Bio-food station(like Argnu Beef, Soja Beans, sunrise flowers etc.),
- Food station (to turn your bio ware into food for your Crystal fab),
Complexes cost a lot in the short-term, however always make money behind the scenes. Your own TL is really required too - thought this can have other benefits too, like cargo/ship transporter.
anyway, help that helps.
cjm3fl
Instruguey (13)
Instruguey (13)
Posted 12 years ago.
Every reply is helpful, Roguey.
I've spent quite a bit of time scanning asteroids in lots of sectors. Recently I've been using my X-shuttle, which 'homes' with my escort Elephant. I have a full report of all asteroids in several sectors that I'm interested in. That X-shuttle pilot has been one busy fella !!!
I found good asteroids in this particular Unknown Sector.
For the Fuel and Weed complex has a 55-yeild Silicon asteroid and I put an L mining facility on it.
Then I towed it to where I wanted to build the complex itself.
I dumped 100M credits in this complex's account when it was completed. The funds dropped a bit in the beginning. But it's recovered and presently it's made 14,500,000 credits.
The Disintegrator Rifle complex has four asteroids, all with L mining facilities; one Ore (50 yield) and three Silicon (22y, 21y, 12y).
I dumped 100M credits in this one too. It dropped quite a bit at first--nearly 10M credits. But it's finally started being profitable. Presently up (from it's low) by 4.5M credits.
Both complexes are selling 'excess' resources, like Energy Cells and Silicone.
There are ships coming in from pretty good distances to buy my wares!.
My newest complex (attempt) is East of Zyarth's Dominion.
One thing I learned this time around...don't move your stations/mining facilities into place then start connecting them. I've spent a lot of time getting everything in place...to spent twice the time moving them out of the way so everything will connect as I want/need.
As for protection, I have an M2 holding at each gate.
Would it be better to move them and order then to "protect"?
I also have Laser Towers. But I understand these are mainly for protection from fighter craft.
But to date (one whole day), the only hostile craft have been 'red' Pirate fighter craft.
I do have one question--I have one freighter inbound that wants 93 Disintegrator Rifles. I only have one plant producing them. Will the freighter stay docked until it gets it's full order?
Actually, I have 2 questions. I have Energy Cells, Ore, and Silicon set to sell at the lowest prices.
Once a ship is listed as inbound for these goods, if I raise the price a little, they still get the goods at the "agreed upon price"...right?
The present complex I'm working on east of Zyarth's Dominion is for Ore production. It's an 17-station + 6 asteroid monstrosity (6 stations are mines). Three Ore 'roids yielding 64 units each, and 3 Silicon 'roids with 30 yield.
They truly are costly. But I'm doing the Nividium mining exploit.
I've bought 100 Dolphin freighters (for 258,606 credits) and sold them for 8,243,167 credits each. A net profit of 7,984,561 for each freighter..not counting the small amount selling the single 1MJ shield all these freighters come with.
I have 5 TL's in my fleet--2 Elephants and 3 Mammoths.
The Mammoths are doing all this complex building work.
It has definitely been a HUGH plus having my own ships.
I've spent quite a bit of time scanning asteroids in lots of sectors. Recently I've been using my X-shuttle, which 'homes' with my escort Elephant. I have a full report of all asteroids in several sectors that I'm interested in. That X-shuttle pilot has been one busy fella !!!
I found good asteroids in this particular Unknown Sector.
For the Fuel and Weed complex has a 55-yeild Silicon asteroid and I put an L mining facility on it.
Then I towed it to where I wanted to build the complex itself.
I dumped 100M credits in this complex's account when it was completed. The funds dropped a bit in the beginning. But it's recovered and presently it's made 14,500,000 credits.
The Disintegrator Rifle complex has four asteroids, all with L mining facilities; one Ore (50 yield) and three Silicon (22y, 21y, 12y).
I dumped 100M credits in this one too. It dropped quite a bit at first--nearly 10M credits. But it's finally started being profitable. Presently up (from it's low) by 4.5M credits.
Both complexes are selling 'excess' resources, like Energy Cells and Silicone.
There are ships coming in from pretty good distances to buy my wares!.
My newest complex (attempt) is East of Zyarth's Dominion.
One thing I learned this time around...don't move your stations/mining facilities into place then start connecting them. I've spent a lot of time getting everything in place...to spent twice the time moving them out of the way so everything will connect as I want/need.
As for protection, I have an M2 holding at each gate.
Would it be better to move them and order then to "protect"?
I also have Laser Towers. But I understand these are mainly for protection from fighter craft.
But to date (one whole day), the only hostile craft have been 'red' Pirate fighter craft.
I do have one question--I have one freighter inbound that wants 93 Disintegrator Rifles. I only have one plant producing them. Will the freighter stay docked until it gets it's full order?
Actually, I have 2 questions. I have Energy Cells, Ore, and Silicon set to sell at the lowest prices.
Once a ship is listed as inbound for these goods, if I raise the price a little, they still get the goods at the "agreed upon price"...right?
The present complex I'm working on east of Zyarth's Dominion is for Ore production. It's an 17-station + 6 asteroid monstrosity (6 stations are mines). Three Ore 'roids yielding 64 units each, and 3 Silicon 'roids with 30 yield.
Complexes cost a lot in the short-term, however always make money behind the scenes. Your own TL is really required too - thought this can have other benefits too, like cargo/ship transporter.
- Roguey
- Roguey
They truly are costly. But I'm doing the Nividium mining exploit.
I've bought 100 Dolphin freighters (for 258,606 credits) and sold them for 8,243,167 credits each. A net profit of 7,984,561 for each freighter..not counting the small amount selling the single 1MJ shield all these freighters come with.
I have 5 TL's in my fleet--2 Elephants and 3 Mammoths.
The Mammoths are doing all this complex building work.
It has definitely been a HUGH plus having my own ships.
It's not what someone has done..it's about what they are about to do!
Roguey
Trueguey (22)
Trueguey (22)
Posted 12 years ago.
Well with a self-sufficient complex you shouldnt need any money on it, if it builds everything itself then money isnt required. You may want to turn off sell intermediates, so the NPC's dont buy the resources it needs (sometimes NPC's can mess up an complex by buying all the wares yo need). You could always use your own ships to sell off any extra resources.
I recommend setting the jump-range to 2 or 4 too - dont want your ships going too far from home. Usually you find something in that range.
It is rare that a complex gets attacked, so having an capital at each gate could be over-kill - depends on the situation really. Sometimes hostile capitals go though the sector without attacking anything, so bunging them at the gate may cause more trouble - again depends on the situation.
depends on their max.price. if you set too high they may not buy after docking. Usually once the NPC ships come to you, leave the price alone. When one NPC comes, its usually a steady stream of them. So hiking up the price may put off other NPC ships. Complexes are like sea-ports, which like steady stream of customers. A large complex with 10+ output ware stations can deal with a lot of customers.
Probably best to move them inwards, and near each other. Two together are stronger. OOS can be a bit weird at times.
I recommend setting the jump-range to 2 or 4 too - dont want your ships going too far from home. Usually you find something in that range.
It is rare that a complex gets attacked, so having an capital at each gate could be over-kill - depends on the situation really. Sometimes hostile capitals go though the sector without attacking anything, so bunging them at the gate may cause more trouble - again depends on the situation.
Once a ship is listed as inbound for these goods, if I raise the price a little, they still get the goods at the "agreed upon price"...right?
depends on their max.price. if you set too high they may not buy after docking. Usually once the NPC ships come to you, leave the price alone. When one NPC comes, its usually a steady stream of them. So hiking up the price may put off other NPC ships. Complexes are like sea-ports, which like steady stream of customers. A large complex with 10+ output ware stations can deal with a lot of customers.
Would it be better to move them and order then to "protect"?
Probably best to move them inwards, and near each other. Two together are stronger. OOS can be a bit weird at times.
cjm3fl
Instruguey (13)
Instruguey (13)
Posted 12 years ago.
Thanks for the information Roguey.
The money...I had over 500M cr in my ship account. I was thinking that putting some into my complexes' accounts would be a good way to keep my ship from hitting the max in it's account.
I know I'm a far way from it..but sometimes I forget about 'little stuff' like this.
Also both of my first ones needed to buy some resources to get their operation going.
For my first couple of complex attempts I wanted to make them completely self-sufficient.
My third complex is starting off better. I only have to supply some Energy Cells to get things started.
I'm slowly having the stations begin production as other resources are produced.
This third complex will produce Ore and Silicon for the HUB plot.
So far all my complexes look like crap. But they are working.
The first one has made 22M cr so far and the second one has made up the 10M cr loss and is now showing a profit of 3M cr.
Good point made about moving the M2's away from the Gates and having them support each other.
They are sitting in the middle of the sector, just off the 'shipping lane'.
So far I haven't done any ST or UT stuff with my freighters in this game.
I see that coming a bit later on, after I complete another plot or two.
The money...I had over 500M cr in my ship account. I was thinking that putting some into my complexes' accounts would be a good way to keep my ship from hitting the max in it's account.
I know I'm a far way from it..but sometimes I forget about 'little stuff' like this.
Also both of my first ones needed to buy some resources to get their operation going.
For my first couple of complex attempts I wanted to make them completely self-sufficient.
My third complex is starting off better. I only have to supply some Energy Cells to get things started.
I'm slowly having the stations begin production as other resources are produced.
This third complex will produce Ore and Silicon for the HUB plot.
So far all my complexes look like crap. But they are working.
The first one has made 22M cr so far and the second one has made up the 10M cr loss and is now showing a profit of 3M cr.
Good point made about moving the M2's away from the Gates and having them support each other.
They are sitting in the middle of the sector, just off the 'shipping lane'.
So far I haven't done any ST or UT stuff with my freighters in this game.
I see that coming a bit later on, after I complete another plot or two.
It's not what someone has done..it's about what they are about to do!
Scott
Specoguey (14)
Specoguey (14)
Posted 12 years ago.
i have built several complexes. the first ones well keep me busy keeping them full of ore and silicone.Later I got mining ships that helped. now I am trying to make the mas self sufficient. just got done making one for the hub plot up the sector next to zyks. silcone mine and a m power food used boron stuff them added computer plant and a telididiea plant. . got 2 crystal plants 2 of everything. got a l mine on a ore roid
can just as easy move with freighters the ore and power. I towed a few stations, a big pain. took 3 tries to get a ore mine next to the silcone mine in midnight star but it is self sufficient and got both left over . I suggest you connect them from the start lot easier do not worry about looks as it is hard to 3 d look.just put a fewm3or 4 and a corvette there ,have a m7or bigger on stby somewhere with a jump drive you should be fine.
can just as easy move with freighters the ore and power. I towed a few stations, a big pain. took 3 tries to get a ore mine next to the silcone mine in midnight star but it is self sufficient and got both left over . I suggest you connect them from the start lot easier do not worry about looks as it is hard to 3 d look.just put a fewm3or 4 and a corvette there ,have a m7or bigger on stby somewhere with a jump drive you should be fine.
Roguey
Trueguey (22)
Trueguey (22)
Posted 12 years ago.
Your gonna need a lot of resources for the Hub plot.. a heck of a lot!
I always try to make them self-sufficient - costs more but means they always keep working behind the scene. If they ever run out of an resource, then they arent making the most profits (something will stop production). Ships can help with complex but not when they get really big, then they can only supply enough resources to top things up, or sell spare intermediate wares.
Complexs are one of them things when you start doing them, you usually end up spending hours and hours on them - its great to see them develop and make money. However its not always clear which goods are best - as I always have trouble selling weapons and missiles.
I always try to make them self-sufficient - costs more but means they always keep working behind the scene. If they ever run out of an resource, then they arent making the most profits (something will stop production). Ships can help with complex but not when they get really big, then they can only supply enough resources to top things up, or sell spare intermediate wares.
Complexs are one of them things when you start doing them, you usually end up spending hours and hours on them - its great to see them develop and make money. However its not always clear which goods are best - as I always have trouble selling weapons and missiles.
cjm3fl
Instruguey (13)
Instruguey (13)
Posted 12 years ago.
Your gonna need a lot of resources for the Hub plot.. a heck of a lot!
- Roguey
- Roguey
That's an understatement.
Think of ALL the resources you need like this--->
I always try to make them self-sufficient - costs more but means they always keep working behind the scene. If they ever run out of an resource, then they arent making the most profits (something will stop production). Ships can help with complex but not when they get really big, then they can only supply enough resources to top things up, or sell spare intermediate wares.
- Roguey
- Roguey
I'm presently at the point (already) where I need freighters to hold those resources I need (Ore and Silicon) plus more freighters to move the excess resources my complexes can't consume (Swamp Plants, Energy Cells,and Rastar Oil) to stations in other sectors so I can sell them.
I just purchased 10 Caiman Super XL's and 10 Mistral Super freighters to store and transfer resources.
Complex building definitely add a new dimension to this game.
It's not what someone has done..it's about what they are about to do!
Roguey
Trueguey (22)
Trueguey (22)
Posted 12 years ago.
Your complex could struggle if need Silicon from other stations, as you really want Silicon to be self-sufficient. This is because Silicon is hard to buy in very large numbers and without the rest of the complex could stop working. Its also limits the maximum size of the complex, as when an complex gets large enough ships usually cant supply enough of it, fast enough. It depends how big you want the complex to be.
Basically when building a complex, think how big you want it to be then search for an sector with enough Silicon for it.
Basically when building a complex, think how big you want it to be then search for an sector with enough Silicon for it.
bozo64r
Miltaguey (15)
Miltaguey (15)
Posted 12 years ago.
I was lucky, used all the Silicon asteroids in PTNI and it just about siffices for my comples. Which was built to fuel my HQ with ship building. I wish ship building was faster, 2 days 1 hour for a Titan and 1 day 10 hours for my a Agamemnon.
I can't expand the complex anymore as there are no more Silicon asteroids left. (well... unless i script one in
)
I can't expand the complex anymore as there are no more Silicon asteroids left. (well... unless i script one in
)
Kirlack
Specoguey (14)
Specoguey (14)
Posted 12 years ago.
Your complex could struggle if need Silicon from other stations, as you really want Silicon to be self-sufficient. This is because Silicon is hard to buy in very large numbers and without the rest of the complex could stop working. Its also limits the maximum size of the complex, as when an complex gets large enough ships usually cant supply enough of it, fast enough. It depends how big you want the complex to be.
Basically when building a complex, think how big you want it to be then search for an sector with enough Silicon for it.
- Roguey
Basically when building a complex, think how big you want it to be then search for an sector with enough Silicon for it.
- Roguey
There are alternatives, but it's dependant on your cash flow.
For instance, I built a crystal mega 'plex down in Barren Shores to fulfil the Hub requirements. Once it was done I had a massive overspill of crystals. Using the CLS2 software from the official Bonus Pack I can ship those excess crystals anywhere I need them relatively painlessly. At the moment a tiny fraction of them are being siphoned off to feed the SSPs of other complexes in sectors without the Silicon to power a self sufficent 'plex. Works like a charm for me.
You could use a small fleet of TS ships to ship in Silicon/Ore from elsewhere in the universe and build your complex in a completely empty sector, like the one East of Mists of Elysium for instance. yes it would be a pain to set up, but once it's done it should tick away nicely.
Madder than a Bastard on fathers day.
My DiDs: Peace(s) of Eight - Way of the Gun - Status: Online, A Xenon DiD
My DiDs: Peace(s) of Eight - Way of the Gun - Status: Online, A Xenon DiD
Roguey
Trueguey (22)
Trueguey (22)
Posted 12 years ago.
Well crystals are much easier to transport than silicon, as you can normally get like 500+ in a TS, whilst silicon you can only get like 200ish. However transporting crystals is a good idea, as they normally keep an complex going awhile.
All i meant is that if you got a complex built that doesnt need any extra ships, then it should stay working forever.
All i meant is that if you got a complex built that doesnt need any extra ships, then it should stay working forever.
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