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hi there,
I created this thread to basically continue on the thread Roguey site is planning to stop with X universe, since a moderator has locked the thread; making it impossible for me to reply now.
The future of the x-sites..
Board Index »
X: Rebirth »
The future of the x-sites..
Roguey
Trueguey (22)
Trueguey (22)
Posted 10 years ago.
Jambock
Rookiguey (4)
Rookiguey (4)
Posted 10 years ago.
Hi Roguey, i just registered here in you site because i wanted to say thanks; i have never been someone active in the EGO forums but have played X - TC and AP a lot and have used a lot of mods trough the years, including yours and i have come to say thanks. But on a personal note not directly related to the subject what hurts me more isn't the fact that X-Rebirth is so terrible or even that the Devs don't want to hear anyone besides themselves; but that the forum community become so trashy... There's a heavy censorship clearly on their forum, i can't feel well there anymore, if someone talks anything that don't pleases the Moderators (or don't praise Ego) the topic is locked using any excuse available in the moment. I could accept it from the users, since these days they resemble some 8 years old kids... but the Moderators? Sorry, i am just venting a little... I hope the best for you and success to your plans in the future. And sorry if something in my text sounds strange, English isn't my primary idiom.
Roguey
Trueguey (22)
Trueguey (22)
Posted 10 years ago.
hi there Jambock, thanks for registering.
I do agree that the official forums are feel very locked-down; as you have to watch what you say. It doesnt feel are free as it once was. I also think the steam-forums are a little moderated too - but not as bad. This isnt the first time I have heard overzealous moderators on the official boards.
So hopefully you can understand why I wanted to create a thread here, since no-one from there as any control on this forum. I would never want people to feel restricted in what they can say (unless it breaks the rules of-course), as thats only a bad thing. People should be free to talk, without having to worry. Of-course there needs to be rules and that, but not harsh.
Due to recent moderator action, I have decided to post my response here. This is to avoid overzealous moderators found on the official boards, and the steam boards. I do not want my posts edited etc. I do not feel free to talk on them any-more.
Well I want to clear up a few things, since I cant do that on the official forums any-more... the thread been locked by a moderator, so I cant reply. I was keeping an eye on the thread.
Firstly I need to clear up a few things with Ketraar. Firstly I am not just a modeller! That has been a secondary thing for me (X2, X3 and X3AP Mods) - but the primary focus being a website to help people navigate/explore the x-universe. The site sits around the 28,000 pages mark, so to dismiss me as simply another named modeller is wrong (I feel). At one point I was getting around half the traffic of the official site too. Secondary, I havnt really worked with you; but simply given you space for discussing v3.0 for X3AP (which you re-ejected my ideas, in-which I left you to-do it), and been in DevNet during X-Rebirth development (we havnt really talked).
Seeing these threads about me reforces how much people care, and maybe something you shouldn’t of down-played as quick (its almost like you must defend egosoft regardless, since it seems you are the most official person here/there. I think any named person leaving is a bad thing, and shouldnt be wept under the carpet. I know people can come and leave from time to time, but some leave a mark. You said on the official forums that you been in DevNet a long time, and you seen a lot of things happen. However for me the series future has never looked as grim. Sure I havnt been in DevNet as long, but ive been playing the x-games from the start! This ‘sticking your fingers in your ears’ approach has been the problem. Maybe it might be been fine a few years back, but it doesnt work nowadays. People should be able to express their views either on social medium, videos or websites, and so they should do! Why this isnt listened to is just crazy. Connection between gamers and developers can be so strong nowadays. So to say its just the way it is, doesnt make it right. Maybe this should change?!
I too, am disappointed in X-Rebirth; it fell short in so many ways. For a game priced at £40, I would be very disappointed too. How long do you wait for things to improve? Months? Years? How much time and effort do you spend? Equally there isn’t much I can do to improve the game (they wont listen) - it’s got to be down to Egosoft. Ive already seen so many people leave, it is crazy.
I will be looking into the May patch of XR (the so called ‘big’ patch), to decide my future fate with the franchise. Although unless a lot has changed, then I feel its still based on a shaky base. The 4 major things (Think, Trade, Build, Fight) are either not there, or don’t work correctly.
l will do a review and post on youtube for people. If XR is still falling short, then Im sure its not going to be ‘fixed’ in this line-of-the-series. Maybe it might be fixed in the next release? Does anyone want to wait that long? Although with XR's launch, does anyone have much faith in Ego any-more?
Its so frustrating for me, as I joined DevNet to offer advice, help, testing and feedback. I never join for this. I wanted to do more than simply be board moderator (managing 1000’s of unread bug-reports).
I also want to add this has nothing to do with other people leaving; my decision is my own.
I do agree that the official forums are feel very locked-down; as you have to watch what you say. It doesnt feel are free as it once was. I also think the steam-forums are a little moderated too - but not as bad. This isnt the first time I have heard overzealous moderators on the official boards.
So hopefully you can understand why I wanted to create a thread here, since no-one from there as any control on this forum. I would never want people to feel restricted in what they can say (unless it breaks the rules of-course), as thats only a bad thing. People should be free to talk, without having to worry. Of-course there needs to be rules and that, but not harsh.
Due to recent moderator action, I have decided to post my response here. This is to avoid overzealous moderators found on the official boards, and the steam boards. I do not want my posts edited etc. I do not feel free to talk on them any-more.
Well I want to clear up a few things, since I cant do that on the official forums any-more... the thread been locked by a moderator, so I cant reply. I was keeping an eye on the thread.
Firstly I need to clear up a few things with Ketraar. Firstly I am not just a modeller! That has been a secondary thing for me (X2, X3 and X3AP Mods) - but the primary focus being a website to help people navigate/explore the x-universe. The site sits around the 28,000 pages mark, so to dismiss me as simply another named modeller is wrong (I feel). At one point I was getting around half the traffic of the official site too. Secondary, I havnt really worked with you; but simply given you space for discussing v3.0 for X3AP (which you re-ejected my ideas, in-which I left you to-do it), and been in DevNet during X-Rebirth development (we havnt really talked).
Seeing these threads about me reforces how much people care, and maybe something you shouldn’t of down-played as quick (its almost like you must defend egosoft regardless, since it seems you are the most official person here/there. I think any named person leaving is a bad thing, and shouldnt be wept under the carpet. I know people can come and leave from time to time, but some leave a mark. You said on the official forums that you been in DevNet a long time, and you seen a lot of things happen. However for me the series future has never looked as grim. Sure I havnt been in DevNet as long, but ive been playing the x-games from the start! This ‘sticking your fingers in your ears’ approach has been the problem. Maybe it might be been fine a few years back, but it doesnt work nowadays. People should be able to express their views either on social medium, videos or websites, and so they should do! Why this isnt listened to is just crazy. Connection between gamers and developers can be so strong nowadays. So to say its just the way it is, doesnt make it right. Maybe this should change?!
I too, am disappointed in X-Rebirth; it fell short in so many ways. For a game priced at £40, I would be very disappointed too. How long do you wait for things to improve? Months? Years? How much time and effort do you spend? Equally there isn’t much I can do to improve the game (they wont listen) - it’s got to be down to Egosoft. Ive already seen so many people leave, it is crazy.
I will be looking into the May patch of XR (the so called ‘big’ patch), to decide my future fate with the franchise. Although unless a lot has changed, then I feel its still based on a shaky base. The 4 major things (Think, Trade, Build, Fight) are either not there, or don’t work correctly.
l will do a review and post on youtube for people. If XR is still falling short, then Im sure its not going to be ‘fixed’ in this line-of-the-series. Maybe it might be fixed in the next release? Does anyone want to wait that long? Although with XR's launch, does anyone have much faith in Ego any-more?
Its so frustrating for me, as I joined DevNet to offer advice, help, testing and feedback. I never join for this. I wanted to do more than simply be board moderator (managing 1000’s of unread bug-reports).
I also want to add this has nothing to do with other people leaving; my decision is my own.
Ketraar
Fightguey (6)
Fightguey (6)
Posted 10 years ago.
Firstly I need to clear up a few things with Ketraar. Firstly I am not just a modeller!
- Roguey
- Roguey
Not that I ever labelled you anyway other than mentioning you to be a modder, which includes any activity since most people have multiple modding skills, in any case it was not dismissive.
Secondary, I havnt really worked with you; but simply given you space for discussing v3.0 for X3AP (which you re-ejected my ideas, in-which I left you to-do it), and been in DevNet during X-Rebirth development (we havnt really talked).
Well guess I had other memories of it, rejecting ideas does not invalidate "listening" or acknowledge it. Maybe collaborating would maybe have been the better word choice, but regardless time spent on it did give me insight which is what the point I was trying to make.
Seeing these threads about me reforces how much people care, and maybe something you shouldn’t of down-played as quick (its almost like you must defend egosoft regardless, since it seems you are the most official person here/there.
You have no idea and have it all wrong I'm afraid. Your leaving wil not, I repeat will NOT make a big dent in how things go. That is my opinion. It does not invalidate the efforts and achievements peoplel have made. Trying to mix these two is to try and confuse matters.
I think any named person leaving is a bad thing, and shouldnt be wept under the carpet.
Named? based on what criteria? Do you realize how unfair this is to all those that have done great things to the X games over the years no one even knows, thousands of hours spent translating, bug hunting, writing feedback, creating content? Anyone shed a tear for them? Some people are "named" because they have more visibility, but what about those that dont? This is why I said the drama created around this is silly. Do I want to go and make comparisons who did how much for how long? Hell no, we are volunteers, volunteers do NOT ask for medals! So yes I'm not the most diplomatic person on earth, but when people start to sell the end of times because you decided to leave I have to step in and wake everyone up. None of us is THAT important!
This ‘sticking your fingers in your ears’ approach has been the problem. Maybe it might be been fine a few years back, but it doesnt work nowadays. People should be able to express their views either on social medium, videos or websites, and so they should do! Why this isnt listened to is just crazy. Connection between gamers and developers can be so strong nowadays. So to say its just the way it is, doesnt make it right. Maybe this should change?!
People can express their view whenever and how ever they want, as long as they dont break the rules. As I said, sometimes things dont work the way we want them to and some one else holds the strings to decision making. Do we quit every time our ideas are not implemented or things are done differently than we thought? I dont think so, that is not how it works.
I too, am disappointed in X-Rebirth; it fell short in so many ways. For a game priced at £40, I would be very disappointed too.
Here you are being a bit unfair and my NDA does not allow me to write it in a public forum, but I'm happy to tell you over skype if you like.
I will be looking into the May patch of XR (the so called ‘big’ patch), to decide my future fate with the franchise. Although unless a lot has changed, then I feel its still based on a shaky base. The 4 major things (Think, Trade, Build, Fight) are either not there, or don’t work correctly.
Here you have a an NDA breach. Feel free to edit it out (I would have mentioned it over Skype if you were online).
As usual I'm up for questions, for you even on Skype over the normal channels if you like.
Still unlike what you and/or most assume, no one is happy for ANY modder that leaves, and its not gone unnoticed either, but its just not common to make a big fus about it.
MFG
Ketraar
BarrenEarth
Proguey (12)
Proguey (12)
Posted 10 years ago.
Ketraar... welcome to Roguey's world... Nanook can't save you here and you can't ban everyone you don't like as you do on the Steam forums.
[Roguey] sorry, but do not personally attack other members of this site. Just because this isn't an official site doesn't mean you can use this site to be bad to others.
TheOneTrueUser
Rookiguey (4)
Rookiguey (4)
Posted 10 years ago.
I am new on here and you have no reason to believe me. And I am really not a negative person (I swear!), but BarrenEarth is spot on. Ketaar's words is a cancer. I have never seen a worse moderator. He really does make Egosoft look bad. And at this point, they cannot afford that. Not sure if you follow Steams forums but if you do, you would see that I am right on this.
Roguey
Trueguey (22)
Trueguey (22)
Posted 10 years ago.
Not that I ever labelled you anyway other than mentioning you to be a modder, which includes any activity since most people have multiple modding skills, in any case it was not dismissive.
okay, but modder isnt the correct term for me, as I dont just change things. Maybe its a syntax thing, but still doesnt sound right to me..
Well guess I had other memories of it, rejecting ideas does not invalidate "listening" or acknowledge it. Maybe collaborating would maybe have been the better word choice, but regardless time spent on it did give me insight which is what the point I was trying to make.
well you guys did seem to have any everything planned, so it was hard to make any comments. Those I did felt like I had my hand bitten-off. The replies were simply no without any reasons behind them.
You have no idea and have it all wrong I'm afraid. Your leaving wil not, I repeat will NOT make a big dent in how things go. That is my opinion. It does not invalidate the efforts and achievements peoplel have made. Trying to mix these two is to try and confuse matters.
No technically my leaving wont effect the development of the game, true. However I never really felt I had any real effect on the game's development. What I did was to provide the public with help and information; something which was lacking. On launch day, you cant tell me that having a full map, stats for XR didnt make a difference?
Sure there are other people who can do it too, but there arent many. How many web-masters are there with HTML5/PHP/MYSQLi etc. knowledge?
Named? based on what criteria? Do you realize how unfair this is to all those that have done great things to the X games over the years no one even knows, thousands of hours spent translating, bug hunting, writing feedback, creating content? Anyone shed a tear for them? Some people are "named" because they have more visibility, but what about those that dont? This is why I said the drama created around this is silly. Do I want to go and make comparisons who did how much for how long? Hell no, we are volunteers, volunteers do NOT ask for medals! So yes I'm not the most diplomatic person on earth, but when people start to sell the end of times because you decided to leave I have to step in and wake everyone up. None of us is THAT important!
What I meant by that is that anyone who has spent a lot of time doing something for the game, whether its scripting, mods, text etc. It came-over that if one person leaves, another will jump in their place. By what you said; Egosoft are relying on the efforts of unpaid creators. Egosoft should be able to create content. Is egosoft only held up by community content makers? If so, why are you guys letting Egosoft profit from all your work?
People can express their view whenever and how ever they want, as long as they dont break the rules. As I said, sometimes things dont work the way we want them to and some one else holds the strings to decision making. Do we quit every time our ideas are not implemented or things are done differently than we thought? I dont think so, that is not how it works.
Well technically I cant, since a moderator locked the thread. So because someone else broke the rules, im not allowed to reply. How is that fair?
Here you have a an NDA breach. Feel free to edit it out (I would have mentioned it over Skype if you were online).
How so? I have never broke the NDA, how did I now?
As usual I'm up for questions, for you even on Skype over the normal channels if you like.
To be honest I forgot my password to skype - the auto-remember - auto-forgot. Since then ive tried a few times. email would be best for me.
Still unlike what you and/or most assume, no one is happy for ANY modder that leaves, and its not gone unnoticed either, but its just not common to make a big fus about it.
Its due to the public to be honest. I never created those two threads (official or steam). They were created by the community because I made one news post (maybe I do have some connection to them). I am just one person, and people could have simply dismissed what I said. After-which I replied to them - once I saw them (3/4 pages worth).
BarrenEarth
Proguey (12)
Proguey (12)
Posted 10 years ago.
I apologize for offending you Roguey. I however can't say I am sorry for the way I feel about Ketraar.
Egosoft has a major problem with dismissing any and all customers who are unhappy. The established policy of moderation on their site and on Steam is horrible. What they have done to me, friends of mine and now Roguey should make anyone uncomfortable.
And Roguey never divulged anything that would breach his NDA, that argument is weak.
Egosoft has a major problem with dismissing any and all customers who are unhappy. The established policy of moderation on their site and on Steam is horrible. What they have done to me, friends of mine and now Roguey should make anyone uncomfortable.
And Roguey never divulged anything that would breach his NDA, that argument is weak.
Ketraar
Fightguey (6)
Fightguey (6)
Posted 10 years ago.
Ketraar... welcome to Roguey's world... Nanook can't save you here and you can't ban everyone you don't like as you do on the Steam forums.
- BarrenEarth
- BarrenEarth
You might realize I'm not really new here and above all dont need saving.
Best you keep to reading and learn something, might not be too late.
[Roguey] No need to flame-back..
okay, but modder isnt the correct term for me, as I dont just change things. Maybe its a syntax thing, but still doesnt sound right to me..
- Roguey
- Roguey
Well its not easy to get titles all right for everyone, people involved in modding community are referred to as modders, some fancy pansy people used to "demand" being called scripters, them being the master race and all. But I feel this is not a big of deal to be worth spend much debating over I presume.
well you guys did seem to have any everything planned, so it was hard to make any comments. Those I did felt like I had my hand bitten-off. The replies were simply no without any reasons behind them.
Yes we mostly did and as many of the other members had to learn the hard way, creating vanilla content is far more tiresome than mods. Also when you are used to work on your own and yours is the last word that counts it may look dismissive when some one else makes a call. But again that is how things usually work, not anything todo with who makes the suggestions.
However I never really felt I had any real effect on the game's development. What I did was to provide the public with help and information; something which was lacking. On launch day, you cant tell me that having a full map, stats for XR didnt make a difference?
Well you came into contact with Rebirth at a stage where no one could have and without going to deep into this its a much slower process as anyone thinks. As for your work, again, no one was saying your work was bad, or worthless, that's not up for debate, only a fool would question it.
What I meant by that is that anyone who has spent a lot of time doing something for the game, whether its scripting, mods, text etc. It came-over that if one person leaves, another will jump in their place.
Yes as cruel as it sounds thats the case. It does replace the person, everyone is unique, or maybe even things are done worse, but community will live and move on, other talented people will jump in and do great things, it was the case with you as it was with me, people before us left and room was made for us to grow in, that is how things work. It does not quantify or qualify your legacy, chances are people will remember as we do. But it does not allow for a general sentiment to be created that one person makes the community crumble, which is what some people want to pass as message, and thus where I have to play devils advocate to provide perspective.
By what you said; Egosoft are relying on the efforts of unpaid creators. Egosoft should be able to create content. Is egosoft only held up by community content makers? If so, why are you guys letting Egosoft profit from all your work?
First of all I never said unpaid, I speak for myself, if others get paid or not I do not know and dont care really. I know there is a great bunch of people on DevNet that are as myself volunteers, this has been stated by Bernd many times that the community was big part of the reason why things worked out. As to the why, again can only speak for myself. Call me naive but I truly believe in community work, I'm second chair in a local non-profit cultural organization that creates cultural content accessible to all for free, also just launched a printed newsletter for free distribution, run a couple of cultural related sites (nothing fancy) and then there is the X community, where I try to help out a small dev-team to create games and I do it for the heck of it. Now this would need a page long post about philosophy and why I dislike money driven, ignorant, lazy people that cant see further than their nose, but I'll leave that for another day.
Well technically I cant, since a moderator locked the thread. So because someone else broke the rules, im not allowed to reply. How is that fair?
True, but its life, how many times we get penalised for other people's wrong doings? I certainly have a few times. I wont comment on Black Rains lock, even in this forum, as it would not only be unfair its his judgement given he is the moderator for that area, but people were told not to attack others, so...
How so? I have never broke the NDA, how did I now?
I'll email it to you later.
Its due to the public to be honest. I never created those two threads (official or steam). They were created by the community because I made one news post (maybe I do have some connection to them). I am just one person, and people could have simply dismissed what I said. After-which I replied to them - once I saw them (3/4 pages worth).
Again you are not on trial or something, and nothing against people saying "fairwell" or thanks. Its when some people start to twist things to fit their own agenda that I have to be the asshole. I dont mind, but I will NOT allow for people to create doomsday sentiments just so they can reboot the hate, I frankly had about enough of it, and then some. In all fairness, where you are I have been a numerous times and then I take a break from things or talk to some one about it, try to change things, but the right way, thus talking to the right people, as frustrating at it at times might be.
This will probably be my last post on this subject I feel its been beaten and should be clear now, I still think you are wrong tbh and you should find some motivation to participate, there is yet room for you to contribute, but it will be as things are, maybe a talk to CBJ will do you good, he tends to have good advice. Email or skype me if you have any questions, as I said before I do remember.
MFG
Ketraar
TheOneTrueUser
Rookiguey (4)
Rookiguey (4)
Posted 10 years ago.
But I too, have learned a lot. Like how Steam moderators (you) can and will:
-let people derail threads on purpose to get them locked
-give people you like minor warning and those you don't bans (that do about the same level of infractions)
-allow moderators (you) to bad mouth people with personal attacks
-actively delete threads
-actively delete posts
-allow moderators (you) to protect the game (not from people breaking the rules, but from those that do not like the game itself)
-people (you) that plug their ears and pretend everything is good (no matter what) is very bad for a game (especially when you get any sort of power)
You have taught me a lot, Ketaar. Thank you.
Just like Egosoft taught me:
-not to pre-order games
-don't trust a company just because prior games are good
-no matter how many of the development team tries to save a game, bad choices from a few can ruin the whole game
-moderators can be very vocal about how bad their game is (never saw that before and in such numbers)
-companies can get away with releasing an unfinished product that takes over five months to fix just the bugs alone(much less game play)
-whoever thought of those mini-games and grandmothers should be fired
-whoever decided to make a PC only game's main controller type a gamepad should also be fired
-let people derail threads on purpose to get them locked
-give people you like minor warning and those you don't bans (that do about the same level of infractions)
-allow moderators (you) to bad mouth people with personal attacks
-actively delete threads
-actively delete posts
-allow moderators (you) to protect the game (not from people breaking the rules, but from those that do not like the game itself)
-people (you) that plug their ears and pretend everything is good (no matter what) is very bad for a game (especially when you get any sort of power)
You have taught me a lot, Ketaar. Thank you.
Just like Egosoft taught me:
-not to pre-order games
-don't trust a company just because prior games are good
-no matter how many of the development team tries to save a game, bad choices from a few can ruin the whole game
-moderators can be very vocal about how bad their game is (never saw that before and in such numbers)
-companies can get away with releasing an unfinished product that takes over five months to fix just the bugs alone(much less game play)
-whoever thought of those mini-games and grandmothers should be fired
-whoever decided to make a PC only game's main controller type a gamepad should also be fired
Lobane
Rookiguey (4)
Rookiguey (4)
Posted 10 years ago.
New user here, I too just registered to express my thanks to Roguey. To say I rarely post on any forum is an understatement. I'm usually content to browse unless I honestly feel like I'm bringing something new to the table without just being redundant. However in this instance I felt like throwing my opinion out here simply in a show of support.
To me Roguey deciding to step away from the series is a tremendous loss, and from my particular point of view, greater than that of any modder. Admittedly this is because I typically don't go out of my way to mod games, and I don't really know the specifics of how modders have improved the overall state of the core game itself. I do understand from reading forums that their contributions in certain instances (X3:TC & AP) have in fact been great, I just don't know what those contributions specifically are.
Roguey on the other hand is well known to me. I have used his site frequently, and his work has undoubtedly aided my enjoyment of the series. I don't intend to take credit away from anyone else by saying this, I know roguey has nothing to do with the game even existing. But with the depth, complexity and freedom that the X series has offered, Roguey has helped me navigate past many challenges, whether intentional or inadvertent, and for that I give him a fair share of that credit as well. I'm sorry if anyone feels that's not fair, or not proportional to the amount of work that any individual has put in over the years. But just as a non-core game mechanic like the UI can greatly impact one's enjoyment of a game, an outside resources such as Roguey's can be integral to the overall experience, especially in this instance.
And so to you Roguey, I tip my hat in thanks for your contributions over the years. Many of us are moving on or already have, and yes its quite possible that for every talented contributor and loyal customer that leaves, another may come to replace them. But that is certainly not a given, and I caution anyone that cares about the X series continued existence not to assume it is. Especially in light of the the promising games this genre has on the horizon, you may find that contributors like Roguey are not so easily replaced.
To me Roguey deciding to step away from the series is a tremendous loss, and from my particular point of view, greater than that of any modder. Admittedly this is because I typically don't go out of my way to mod games, and I don't really know the specifics of how modders have improved the overall state of the core game itself. I do understand from reading forums that their contributions in certain instances (X3:TC & AP) have in fact been great, I just don't know what those contributions specifically are.
Roguey on the other hand is well known to me. I have used his site frequently, and his work has undoubtedly aided my enjoyment of the series. I don't intend to take credit away from anyone else by saying this, I know roguey has nothing to do with the game even existing. But with the depth, complexity and freedom that the X series has offered, Roguey has helped me navigate past many challenges, whether intentional or inadvertent, and for that I give him a fair share of that credit as well. I'm sorry if anyone feels that's not fair, or not proportional to the amount of work that any individual has put in over the years. But just as a non-core game mechanic like the UI can greatly impact one's enjoyment of a game, an outside resources such as Roguey's can be integral to the overall experience, especially in this instance.
And so to you Roguey, I tip my hat in thanks for your contributions over the years. Many of us are moving on or already have, and yes its quite possible that for every talented contributor and loyal customer that leaves, another may come to replace them. But that is certainly not a given, and I caution anyone that cares about the X series continued existence not to assume it is. Especially in light of the the promising games this genre has on the horizon, you may find that contributors like Roguey are not so easily replaced.
BarrenEarth
Proguey (12)
Proguey (12)
Posted 10 years ago.
@Ketraar,
I don't have anything to learn from you. Thanks. I learned from the vocabulary of your post that the "Be Good Mind" in the game is probably your doing lol.
Anyways, watch your language and insults, If I can't do it, you can't do it. And I don't care how long you have been here, but trying to diminish Roguey's important to the X Franchise on his very own site seems... silly or not well thought out.
I don't have anything to learn from you. Thanks. I learned from the vocabulary of your post that the "Be Good Mind" in the game is probably your doing lol.
Anyways, watch your language and insults, If I can't do it, you can't do it. And I don't care how long you have been here, but trying to diminish Roguey's important to the X Franchise on his very own site seems... silly or not well thought out.
Roguey
Trueguey (22)
Trueguey (22)
Posted 10 years ago.
creating vanilla content is far more tiresome than mods.
I mostly disagree with that statement, as there are some big mods out there who had a great number of people invest time. Some mods are actually better than the original game; for example XTM got incorporated into X3TC. I wouldnt say automatically say vanilla is harder.
Well you came into contact with Rebirth at a stage where no one could have and without going to deep into this its a much slower process as anyone thinks.
Well I was in DevNet for 6 months before its release. I PM'ed CBJ, emailed Bernd and even wrote pages of advice on the L5+ area. None of it seems to have registered. I was even suposed to be in a balancing-team which never did anything. All of it seems ignored. I know a few other L5/6's who were also very disappointed about how little their words had an effect on the development. Were we supposed to be there 7 years ago so they could listen to us? 6 Months? thats a long time were there could of been plenty of feedback.
CBJ admitted things wasnt great between the devs and volunteers, but vowed to improve things. 6 months on and its not really changed... okay there is a public testing area, but this almost feels like its a way to try and get the public back onboard. If people are spending £40 for game, they dont expect to be public- tester for a developer. That was our job.
One of the funnest things too, the biggest first bug with XR - the sound card crashing the game, I reported that on my first bug-report. This was dismissed as false. One launch day, it effected lots of people - who were frustrated by it crashing on the start-up.
Check OT-0149 that I posted on Wed May 29, 2013 6:59 pm - the same bug. This just improves to me how little egosoft looked at my bug-reports.
I know there is a great bunch of people on DevNet that are as myself volunteers, this has been stated by Bernd many times that the community was big part of the reason why things worked out.
This almost says egosoft is held together by its volunteers? You said about you dislike money driven, ignorant, lazy people.. but egosoft are money making business. All the hours you put in to improve their games, is more money Bernd etc. made from people such as you. All your time and work are being exploited. Although since you spent all that time, you guys will find it very hard to admit too.
If youre happy for Bernd and the development crew to do this, fine.. but dont start mixing up volunteer work with AAA priced titles. Someone here is making a bucket load of money from a bunch of poor space-fans who felt ripped off. The money we are talking about is more than most make in a year, 2, or more. I dont know the exact numbers but doing a very rough calculation using steam online users;
14,000 x £40 = £560,000
ie. over half-a-million-pounds
ie. over half-a-million-pounds
Thats just based highest online users (there is bound to be more than 14k copies sold). Say there are 50k copies sold, thats;
50,000 x £40 = £2,000,000
ie. 2 million pounds!
ie. 2 million pounds!
I know afterwards the publishers want their cut, but still you cant say Bernd didnt make any money from it?
Since they are doing this, you should expect a friendly, active developer (as you are helping them to pay their wages).. otherwise this role(s) would have to be done by a paid position person.
For this amount of money, what do Egosoft actually do? By comparing them to other developers it seems very little. It took them like 3 months to add a log-book and the target keys.
True, but its life, how many times we get penalised for other people's wrong doings? I certainly have a few times. I wont comment on Black Rains lock, even in this forum, as it would not only be unfair its his judgement given he is the moderator for that area, but people were told not to attack others, so...
That's like saying ill lock the whole site down because someone posted a bad comment. Sure it stops it from happening again, but its way too heavy handed and just bad moderation. Myself, to lock a thread should be a last result not something to control what people say. If people are angry, then you will be locking a lot of threads all the time, which will alienate people. The complete opposite thing a forum stands-for. Now I cant reply to a valid post because a few people have de-trailed it, I have no come back.
I'll email it to you later.
I asked CBJ and have already corrected it. Although what surprised me is no one really made much of it.
Its when some people start to twist things to fit their own agenda that I have to be the asshole. I dont mind, but I will NOT allow for people to create doomsday sentiments just so they can reboot the hate, I frankly had about enough of it, and then some.
I never set to twist things, I am just voicing how I feel and that I am looking to ditch the x-universe. I never made the posts on the official forums, or steam. I cant control what other people say, as they must of felt what I posted was important enough to them. ie. Something important enough to voice a opinion about. Sure people leave all the time, but most disappear under the radar. You think if bob stop playing XR anyone would make such a song-n-dance out of it? What about if Bernd left?
I still think you are wrong tbh and you should find some motivation to participate, there is yet room for you to contribute, but it will be as things are, maybe a talk to CBJ will do you good, he tends to have good advice. Email or skype me if you have any questions, as I said before I do remember.
There is only so long you can back something before your head takes over. Ive given egosoft a year worth of DevNet time, and over 5-6 years worth of game play. I think I stuck it out more than most people. There are some real big problems with DevNet and XR which need to be addressed. The first stage would be to admit to the public, yes we ducked-up. Just look how the they have distant themselves. It took Bernd around 2-3 months for him to come out of hiding, to post a youtube video.
Egosoft motto of sticking your fingers in your ears and hope it all goes away, is wrong and floored. This also down plays the importance of things too. Bernd/CBJ should be out there trying to keep the community excited. Maybe what they can say is controlled by the publisher? Publishers are purely about making money, and some of your effort goes towards paying them.
To me Roguey deciding to step away from the series is a tremendous loss, and from my particular point of view, greater than that of any modder. Admittedly this is because I typically don't go out of my way to mod games, and I don't really know the specifics of how modders have improved the overall state of the core game itself.
Thank-you Lobane for registering and posting how you feel. To me its very important, as I know only a handful of people will post stuff. Unfortunately most people will simply read things.
So thanks for letting me know :
tijcker
Rookiguey (4)
Rookiguey (4)
Posted 10 years ago.
Hi everybody, I’m not one for posting on forum’s but since the release of rebirth I think I spend most of my time on them now.
This forum seems to be a little off beat between Roguey and Ketraar and both having very true points enclosed in each post.
I feel for you Roguey, and just like the rest of us that have spent a life time in the x universe are really disappointed in the game and its release state and I don’t blame you to stop supporting a game that is really not worth supporting. Of course you will check on it now and again with a little bit of hope.
Ketraar says that nothing will change without his support, that’s with or without your support, and that is very true. because they are not changing any of the real problems.
This game needs a complete rewrite, and that’s not going to happen, with or without Roguey’s help. If I could mod this game fully I would have a go at it, but it is going to take a whole lot of time and man power.
One problem is that I have spent 400 hours on this game with very little reward or accomplishment. I think I have 6 stations in different states and most of the freighters have been captured for one reason or other (mainly building sucks). I have no fleet of fighters yet, and I have a few capital ships that I can’t control.
I’ve loved X since XBTF and this is nothing like that, I could cope if it was the same with basic trading and building, but with the new engine and galactic systems, mainly because you could build on it, like they did with the old X games.
Some things I like to change.
Trading doesn’t work
It isn’t that it doesn’t work but it needs rethinking. Product wares, equipped items and inventory items all seem very isolated from each other. There are three different wares all with the same name, all have to be brought, equipped and sold at different places. :-S Take missile, if you could just swap them around it would be a big improvement, buy them from the factory by freighter, equip them to the freighter, land and transfer them to the skunk and equip them or sell them to a trader. At the moment it feels like 3 different trades be 3 different game designers with no connection at all.
You can’t transfer wares straight to you own stations, you have to have the money to buy them and the manager has to have money to buy them. :-S So If you have no money after buying wares you can’t transfer them manually, so that means you need twice the amount of money.
Farm traders etc, should buy and sell ware items like wheat so you could buy and sell between stations and NPCs alike. Also the wheat farms would put out missions for farming equipment, and these missions or requests should come from the managers.
All this would make the trading more integrated and give you more options, like if you could not get rid of the 1000 missiles you bought for a station you could off load them to several NPCs
Station building needs a complete re-write
Like the plantation station modules produce wheat, spice and other produce. They all need different resources, so there is no way to chain a production line together in one station.
Building modules seem to take the same amount of time and resources no matter what it is, even though a wheat farm could make you 30k per hour and a plate fact could make 3 million per hour.
I think it would be great to have a station editor to build your own stations, chose any module you want (depending on faction) and place it where you want in your complex. Say you can build 5 modules with one construction vessel before it is consumed and also you can use them to build more modules onto any station. Each construction vessel can move to any site at any time. So you can build a station like Meadow Fields.
Fewer resources used to build the stations to be able to build them faster, after finding the money buying or waiting on the production of resources, sometimes 30 hours to build one module is a bit extreme. You should be able to build the whole station in that amount of time. Reduce it by 1/5 and add other items from NPCs like farming equipment to complete the farm build.
And add all the normal stuff that has been discussed like fleet management, fighters and large fleet battles between other factions.
The only thing they seem to add with each patch is more mini games and rewards for them without addressing the real problem with the game. They need to get it through their thick sculls that we don’t want to play the mini games, WE DON’T WANT TO PLAY THEM. What we want is to manage our fleets, our trades, our stations, our trade roots. We want to customise our ships and our stations.
RID ALL THE MINI GAMES
CONCENTRATE ON TRADE, FLEET AND MANAGEMENT GAME. PLEASE
Then it could be worth the efforts that somebody like Roguey has put in and then maybe continue to support the community.
But none of this is going to happen because Egosoft know best.
This forum seems to be a little off beat between Roguey and Ketraar and both having very true points enclosed in each post.
I feel for you Roguey, and just like the rest of us that have spent a life time in the x universe are really disappointed in the game and its release state and I don’t blame you to stop supporting a game that is really not worth supporting. Of course you will check on it now and again with a little bit of hope.
Ketraar says that nothing will change without his support, that’s with or without your support, and that is very true. because they are not changing any of the real problems.
This game needs a complete rewrite, and that’s not going to happen, with or without Roguey’s help. If I could mod this game fully I would have a go at it, but it is going to take a whole lot of time and man power.
One problem is that I have spent 400 hours on this game with very little reward or accomplishment. I think I have 6 stations in different states and most of the freighters have been captured for one reason or other (mainly building sucks). I have no fleet of fighters yet, and I have a few capital ships that I can’t control.
I’ve loved X since XBTF and this is nothing like that, I could cope if it was the same with basic trading and building, but with the new engine and galactic systems, mainly because you could build on it, like they did with the old X games.
Some things I like to change.
Trading doesn’t work
It isn’t that it doesn’t work but it needs rethinking. Product wares, equipped items and inventory items all seem very isolated from each other. There are three different wares all with the same name, all have to be brought, equipped and sold at different places. :-S Take missile, if you could just swap them around it would be a big improvement, buy them from the factory by freighter, equip them to the freighter, land and transfer them to the skunk and equip them or sell them to a trader. At the moment it feels like 3 different trades be 3 different game designers with no connection at all.
You can’t transfer wares straight to you own stations, you have to have the money to buy them and the manager has to have money to buy them. :-S So If you have no money after buying wares you can’t transfer them manually, so that means you need twice the amount of money.
Farm traders etc, should buy and sell ware items like wheat so you could buy and sell between stations and NPCs alike. Also the wheat farms would put out missions for farming equipment, and these missions or requests should come from the managers.
All this would make the trading more integrated and give you more options, like if you could not get rid of the 1000 missiles you bought for a station you could off load them to several NPCs
Station building needs a complete re-write
Like the plantation station modules produce wheat, spice and other produce. They all need different resources, so there is no way to chain a production line together in one station.
Building modules seem to take the same amount of time and resources no matter what it is, even though a wheat farm could make you 30k per hour and a plate fact could make 3 million per hour.
I think it would be great to have a station editor to build your own stations, chose any module you want (depending on faction) and place it where you want in your complex. Say you can build 5 modules with one construction vessel before it is consumed and also you can use them to build more modules onto any station. Each construction vessel can move to any site at any time. So you can build a station like Meadow Fields.
Fewer resources used to build the stations to be able to build them faster, after finding the money buying or waiting on the production of resources, sometimes 30 hours to build one module is a bit extreme. You should be able to build the whole station in that amount of time. Reduce it by 1/5 and add other items from NPCs like farming equipment to complete the farm build.
And add all the normal stuff that has been discussed like fleet management, fighters and large fleet battles between other factions.
The only thing they seem to add with each patch is more mini games and rewards for them without addressing the real problem with the game. They need to get it through their thick sculls that we don’t want to play the mini games, WE DON’T WANT TO PLAY THEM. What we want is to manage our fleets, our trades, our stations, our trade roots. We want to customise our ships and our stations.
RID ALL THE MINI GAMES
CONCENTRATE ON TRADE, FLEET AND MANAGEMENT GAME. PLEASE
Then it could be worth the efforts that somebody like Roguey has put in and then maybe continue to support the community.
But none of this is going to happen because Egosoft know best.
Ketraar
Fightguey (6)
Fightguey (6)
Posted 10 years ago.
creating vanilla content is far more tiresome than mods.
I mostly disagree with that statement, as there are some big mods out there who had a great number of people invest time. Some mods are actually better than the original game; for example XTM got incorporated into X3TC. I wouldnt say automatically say vanilla is harder.
- Roguey
I mostly disagree with that statement, as there are some big mods out there who had a great number of people invest time. Some mods are actually better than the original game; for example XTM got incorporated into X3TC. I wouldnt say automatically say vanilla is harder.
- Roguey
I said tiresome, not better, not harder. That XTM was incorporated in TC is a false notion and a myth, people from XTM worked on TC and some features crossed over, but little to no actual stuff was included, as it was done from scratch. What it means is that creating vanilla content has much less freedom (due to standards) then making mods and its not just the copyright issues. Mind I had Pirates script taking over your assets, like station which is something that would never be allowed for vanilla, as an example.
I never set to twist things, I am just voicing how I feel and that I am looking to ditch the x-universe.
Again it was not addressed to you, if you read what I wrote it should be clear.
There is only so long you can back something before your head takes over.
Yes I know, and its OK, as I said too, everyone has to decide when they have had it, and move on. No point in sticking around in a hobby when you dont have some joy or motivation.
MFG
Ketraar
OliasOfSunhillo
Fightguey (6)
Fightguey (6)
Posted 10 years ago.
Roguey I fully understand where your coming from in fact I don't know how you got to complete the walkthroughs as it must have been pure frustration just completing them so I can understand where your coming from.
Ketraar what are you on? Do you like the game or not and why are you being so heavy handed? Why pull out of Roguey on his own site - I don't see you running a website where we can visit and flame you?
You raise an interesting point here Ketraar, why would it never be allowed in vanilla? Because its interfering with the plot in some form? Simple matter to move plot mission to another station, but lazy programming on Ego's behalf they have been guilty of this since they expanded the universe with X2.
Great work over the years Roguey thanks for your trying at least!
Ketraar what are you on? Do you like the game or not and why are you being so heavy handed? Why pull out of Roguey on his own site - I don't see you running a website where we can visit and flame you?
Mind I had Pirates script taking over your assets, like station which is something that would never be allowed for vanilla, as an example.
You raise an interesting point here Ketraar, why would it never be allowed in vanilla? Because its interfering with the plot in some form? Simple matter to move plot mission to another station, but lazy programming on Ego's behalf they have been guilty of this since they expanded the universe with X2.
Great work over the years Roguey thanks for your trying at least!
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