X3 Rebirth expectations and more

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Markoguey (10)

Posted 11 years ago.

Since we need to wait for Rebirth much longer than we thought I think its a good idea of starting a little debate.

I wonder what expectations You have about Rebirth (resonable wishlist).
What In your opinion should change and what not.

Probably most of You think "there are already tons of wishlists for Rebirth", but I dont think so.

In most of wishlist we can see irrational requests, so here are rules:
- all ideas must be continuation of (items, objects, resources...) from previous X-Universe (X3:R/TC/AP)
- dont mess with the game main ideas (trading, space simulator...) ideas like FPS runing on stations and similar are irracional
- if You want add/see new structures, stations, races or ships, make sure they fit in X-Universe
- is there any ideas from mods that in your opinion should be implemented in new X what are they (from what mods)?
- make sure that Your ideas dont ruin the game (long conversations with NPC to take common mission like transport passengers form A to B can be fun at begining, but later long time to take that mission will drive You mad)
- what about Argon / Terran "War" how it ended, who win, or maby there was only losers? Maby supernova settled the conflict?
- finaly; In Your opinion, what are good ideas that already are in X3 that should not be changed/removed ?
- becouse we know very little of Rebirth (only scraps of infos) speak Your mind only about things that Egosoft confirmed (like only 1 ship available for player to fly; the new idea of : VR...)

Well, Im curious and waiting for Yours vision of new X Smile

Here is some of my ideas:
(things to add/change)
- effective anti-missile system, MDM is not enough vs M7Ms barrage, maby some kind of decoy drone that will drew some of missiles away(not all) to keep game ballanced; and for smaller ships maby flare-system???
- unknown sectors take over, with possibility of give them names; defend, rebuild, tax...;
- hiring smart crew for capital ships (if ship is damaged in battle, its crew fly to rapair dock to fix the ship, repleace damaged shields and weapons, resupply fuel and missiles...)
- more specialized ships (in all fields)
- research station(s) and research system (inventing new types of weapons and/or ship improvements that You can install only on ships builded by You) linked to players HQ.
- unique ships equipment (if Your ship is destroyed - instaled eq is lost forever)
- more inteligent traders(MK3) and comodity logistics (only 4 waypoints its not enough), maby some kind of Trading Academy where I can pay to faster train my traders.
- property window colored version and additional info: (ie: military ships = red, traders = blue, When on list i see my Mistral SF that is equiped with comodity logistics or MK3 soft, i want to see info about pilot's rank).

(things not to be changed)
Gate System, Jump Drive - traveling system. I really dont like the idea of highways, when in X3:AP ie Albion systems i hate to wait long time to travel form 1 orbital accelerator to another. So I hope that jumpgates can be reactivated.
Only one ship for player idea - well I do not like it so i hope there will be possibility to change that (mods). Egosoft says that flying capital ships is boring... hmmm i really like to fly abord my Xenon K Smile

I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me...

Roguey

Trueguey (22)

Posted 11 years ago.

Sectors

hmm.. well Id like to see the whole idea of sectors removed. Space is one large area, not sectors. So it would be great if we could simply fly to where we want. Of-course there should be some option later in the game to 'jump' to a place, or nearby. Sectors did their job when the hardware couldnt handle large complex areas but surely the tech now should be able to render the universe, as a universe?

Weapons

Id like to see an overhaul to the weapon system. Limit/remove the amount of guns on fighters, make weapons less spammy (80-90% of bullets miss), change missiles (M7m just highlighed the problems with them) and a big increase to the max turret count. A capital ship should be able to to have 20-30+ turrets. 6 is just old, another limitation due to tech.

Ship classes

Id like to see rehaul, its simply got too complex and many ships role into other classes. Rather having such narrow class-types, why not simply by size like destroyer, carrier, corvette, fighter etc. Why cant a trade ship be the size of a corvette or a fighter? after-all shouldn't the job define the ships role, not the ship (has its 'limited' to hold only a set type of cargo)? Why do we have S, M, L, XL cargo-type?

anywoo, just a few ideas.

jaml

Markoguey (10)

Posted 11 years ago.

These ideas are really nice!

Having a capital ship with lets say 24 turrets is awesome. Now battles (eaven big) are a bit boring on late-game. About fighters I think they need to rebuild M3-M5 class totaly.

Most of this ships are useless. Fun at early game but later not much of use. I think one of the reason is AI, how many times we saw our light fighters wing attacking enemy M2? Well this is just ...not smart Wink

In large battles little ships are almost totay useless, they die after 3-4 hits or random colission with objects - so they have no role - why keep them? This part really need some rework.

About ship classes, You right again Smile

This M1,M2+,M2... is really not good idea. I will also diversified the classes by light/heavy. And rebuilding weapons with ships system is really nice. I really like to see that biggest guns on destroyers are unable to hit fast and agile small ship. This will force the ship owner to think and gather advanced fleet, where every ship is usefull and do his job?

I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me...

Raptor

Instruguey (13)

Posted 11 years ago.

I have one idea, Dynamic Universe :

We should experience changes in the state of the universe while proceeding in the game like:

Building entire sector(s), and unknown sectors become known (inhabited) after some time
Developing new technologies/equipment/ships/weapons
Discovering of new races/resources/technologies
Dynamic economies/military-forces
...etc

Also for wars, we should be able to influence the progress/success of the war, and involving into a war should mean joining military force(s) under certain command, and you may become the commander after achieving some ranks.

And one comment:
The plot... I think that the game becomes a bit boring after completion of the plots, so I really think its a good idea to provide much more/longer plots and increase the reasonability of missions provided by NPCs. Smile

It does not matter what we were in the past but what we are now, what we do and what we are going to be, our destiny.

BarrenEarth

BarrenEarth avatar

Proguey (12)

Posted 11 years ago.

I agree 100% with Roguey but want to add:

1) Our ships fly slower than some commercial airliners on Earth today do... there is something wrong with that.

2) If we are going to have missile spam like we do in AP, why have these advanced civilizations come up with countermeasures like chaff or flares?

3) Capital ships should be huge, and from what it sounds like they are trying to make them huge. But if you were to make a Titan 5km long, it would take up 1/4 of some of the old sectors.

4) There is no concern from most AI that you are the player, there is no AI competition without serious modding. If you are a cunning entrepenuer why are there no other conglomerate players competing against you, trying to work with you or destroy you.

5) The tone of the game appears to me to be more about simplicity instead of challenging expanded concepts. That scares me, if I wanted simple I would play Dark Star One lol.

But mostly, I agree with Roguey that the universe should not be a collection of 30 km wide areas... it should be huge.

Raptor

Instruguey (13)

Posted 11 years ago.

Since the X-Universe especially X-Rebirth is extremely large and complex, its nearly impossible for most hardware to render the entire universe at once, hence the idea of sectors, its a lot looks like 'Loading...' in other games, say a FPS game, the game 'Loads' maps while you progress in the game, right?

But I agree that the concepts of sectors, jumpgates, jumpdrives... etc are just Sci-Fi, but the game just needs that Sci-Fi to work suitably, right? Smile

It does not matter what we were in the past but what we are now, what we do and what we are going to be, our destiny.

jaml

Markoguey (10)

Posted 11 years ago.

Both posts are really good. Dynamic universe idea is really good.

Now our trade ships almost always travel safe (maby some random pirates attack). But for example if player creates really good trade line, that affect some corporation buissnes and corporation income goes down becouse of that why this corporate do not try to retake trade line and fight for their profits?

I also think the "small" NPC missions like "bring me 10000 energy" or similar should be extanded.
a) some of them should be like the small contract: "we pay <player> 100.000c for constant suppy for energy, game time = 1 week", what i mean is that there should be small/large contracts that affect eaven suppy all resources for factory to be operational for nice money.
OR
b) the reward after succes its long-term contract (we will pay 15c for each energy cell as long as it not come form...(some race)) - CLS traders make more sens that way ??? / better use of players resources or factories (solar plant)...

b) work on a contract for corporations (not only for a little more rep and/or money) ie: if player agree to work for some corporation, gametime = 10 days; during this time he have to do many things that this corporation request (escorting convoys, protecting factories/stations, help to retake sector/ trade lines/ find resources...) and after all that time when all jobs are finished, corporation will "count our points" and adequately to overall score we get our prices (max points = nice & equiped ship(s), medium = weapons / blueprints / better rep, low = some money). And when starting this contract player dont know what are all goals or rewards (they can change - dynamic universe). ???

edit:
One more thing to add (in my opinion very important)
"disappearing of ship", what i mean is that now on nav-sector map player/npc can see all ships regardless to the ship type and actions. I think that navigation should be more like sonar in submarines. If ship powerdown engines (speed=0) and hide in asteroid field - make it harder to detect (smaller ships = harder), maby eavens specjal type of hull? It can expand tactics, make small ship more usable, add more NPC jobs, ambushes set by pirates (like stealing blueprints, research secrets etc...) ???
endedit

2) If we are going to have missile spam like we do in AP, why have these advanced civilizations come up with countermeasures like chaff or flares?
- BarrenEarth

At thread start I wrote about flare systems and decoy drones - i think bringing that idea (or similar) to live should solve probles of missile spam... But I fully agree that it is a big problem in AP, 1 cobra with hammerheads can eliminate - hmmm - everything. They try to limit this in XRM mod, but in my opinion unsuccesful. I think limiting M7Ms is not the way - adding new additional anti-missile systems will solve problem but leave M7Ms still usefull ships.

Maby: if we can succesful complete this section, and write an overall suggestions (assuming that Ego - Rebirth progress is low), sign it (all of us) - then send official email to Egosoft cantaining all popular suggestions ???

I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me...

BarrenEarth

BarrenEarth avatar

Proguey (12)

Posted 11 years ago.

Yeah that is a good way of getting a nice quiet ban on the Ego forums lol.

And as far as rendering the whole universe, surely you have played or seen Minecraft. The map on minecraft size by size is larger than all the sectors of X3 together, but they only render to reasonable (option-able) distances.

jaml

Markoguey (10)

Posted 11 years ago.

Yeah that is a good way of getting a nice quiet ban on the Ego forums lol.

I never said we should post it on ego forum (that by the way is totaly spammed and chaotic). I prefer direct mail. Many companies now pay a lof of money for researching the market and customers. I think they can be grateful for some ideas that can bring breath of fresh air to the game.
And please keep in mind that these ideas are only suggestion - not demands Smile

but whatever - it was only simple suggestion, everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me...

BarrenEarth

BarrenEarth avatar

Proguey (12)

Posted 11 years ago.

Oh no, I love the suggestions, just pointing out that the people making the game seem to be a little sensitive and uptight about their ideas and progress. They would take our letter as undue criticism.

Maybe we should start a kickstarter and make a better game, heck we might even finish before them lol

jaml

Markoguey (10)

Posted 11 years ago.

Haha

Well I know a bit of coding, and it isnt that simple.
Well I just wanted to send ideas and sugestions, not list "todo:..." or things that we dont like Smile

About sensitivity of ego-crew - it depends on what stage thay are with rebirth, if the product is advanced (and we just dont know about it) they can simple ignore it, if its early/middle stage they can get some of ideas and implement them. So in my humble opinion its worth a try. Smile

I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me...

Roguey

Trueguey (22)

Posted 11 years ago.

Since the X-Universe especially X-Rebirth is extremely large and complex, its nearly impossible for most hardware to render the entire universe at once, hence the idea of sectors, its a lot looks like 'Loading...' in other games, say a FPS game, the game 'Loads' maps while you progress in the game, right?

That would be crazy to render the whole universe in one ago. However like BarrenEarth said, only the local area should be rendered. Space is one large area, not sectors. We shouldnt really have gates, tunnels or portals. They were there because we didnt have the hardware to even think of a large open area, but now surely the hardware must be powerful enough?

Both posts are really good. Dynamic universe idea is really good.

Well technically the x-universe is already dynamic, due to the GoD engine. However I do know what you mean; once the universe is setup, then it doesnt really change too much.

i think bringing that idea (or similar) to live should solve probles of missile spam... But I fully agree that it is a big problem in AP, 1 cobra with hammerheads can eliminate - hmmm - everything.

I think that is the case of egosoft introducing something but not creating a counter for it. Usually in most games one think beats another, this isnt limited to space-games. However ego didnt really add anything to counter it.

Maby: if we can succesful complete this section, and write an overall suggestions (assuming that Ego - Rebirth progress is low), sign it (all of us) - then send official email to Egosoft cantaining all popular suggestions ???

Well im guessing they already got a few people telling them that. Although the bigger worry, im not sure how much they are listening. Hopefully they are but so far we havnt really seen anything in rebirth that we asked for, well.. not yet. However I guess we havnt really seen/heard much about it.

Maybe we should start a kickstarter and make a better game, heck we might even finish before them lol

lol, frustrating eh? So many great idea but unlikely to see them happen. Kind-of want a development team to stumble
on the site, and start reading these posts.

BarrenEarth

BarrenEarth avatar

Proguey (12)

Posted 11 years ago.

I fear Roguey that the philosophy at Ego is to make the game the way they want, in the time they want to and let us work out the bugs. They never cared much for content because of the large modding community.

I also now have challenged the Devs to deliver X:Rebirth before X-Online Online-Universe.net lol

Both are pretty darn near Vaporware if you ask me.

jaml

Markoguey (10)

Posted 11 years ago.

No sectors / One big "never ending" universe is excelent idea but, here we need to be extra careful. Im sure that we all are aware about disadvantages of secored universe. However the one big universe should be "divided". If we want to use jumpgates, jumpbeacons etc... we should have a possibility to navigate that universe quick and simple.
Disabling all jumpgates leaving only jumpbeacons in strategic positions is "the fastest" solution to that problem, but change like this work both ways... (this looks to me like an extanded idea of "Advanced Universe" mod, where jumpdrives are limited (player can jump only to beacon, not to the gate). If You guys have any ideas how to make this work I gladly read about them. Maby some remake the idea of navigating used in Wing Commander? There races used quasars, black wholes, gravity wells... to make jumps. (not reimplementation but rework/remake - similar idea) ???

Well technically the x-universe is already dynamic, due to the GoD engine. However I do know what you mean; once the universe is setup, then it doesnt really change too much.

As best as I can describe it: "Newton's law of motion: To every action there is always an equal and opposite reaction".
ie:
Player attack (invade xenon core sector), player wins / xenon lost (destroyed shipyard) -> xenons revenge (adequate to hostality of player) xenon ships searching for players HQ/ factories/ complexes... they send fleet with at least 2 destroyers, target= player's hq, result os big battle for player in "home sector" that will make game more interestig, and eaven in later game players will not get too cocky, becouse everybody know "hurt us too much - we will respond" ???

Enemies ships invading/ attacking sector, result is chaos (not only in military but economy-sector is also affected).

Active pirates (including their own economy, head-hunters, assasins, traps...) Now pirates are just some ships that fly around. Damn pirates should be dangerous and hostile! And becous of that they are "not welcome" in commonwealth (sectors) teritory.

Well, maby I miss something but where are the Kha'aks? Will thay give up so easily? Why no one (race or corporation) is researching their ships and weapons, technology?

Exploration of unknown. (sometimes easy, with beautiful scenery / sometimes player is forced to fight for his very life / affected by space itself (neutron stars, black wholes, pulsars and more... / connected to research idea - finding of derelict data, ships, weapons, blueprints, stations / new races = new posiblities - new threat - new missions...)

I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me...

Sinxar

Cruguey (18)

Posted 11 years ago.

Threads like this is one of the main reasons (IMO) that they don't want to release too much info about the game. People get an idea of what they think it should be and then when it isn't like that, it gets a lot of negative press. Not that there is anything wrong with making idea threads.

I'm still taking the "Lets just wait and see" approach to this. Sure there are things I would like to see in the game and some things changed. Take for example the announcement that you would have one ship and drones. Everybody is hating on the game now just because of that statement. Nobody has even played a demo yet. It could be a completely different style of gameplay for all we know.

I would like to see a much more dynamic universe as a whole. I know they are animating everything, but I mean more like advanced pilot AI ships around that are actually doing stuff, perhaps actually mining for example. Not just filler garbage like the civilians they added in a while back to the old X games.

The idea of active pirates is a lot like the XRM mod. He has that in there now and its great. There are even bounty hunters that are actually trying to make money from hunting people, and the bounty system actually works well. I hope we can expect some great things from X:R but i'm not holding out for anything spectacular. The graphics upgrade will be sweet though.

As I always say: keep your expectations low, then you won't get disappointed.

jaml

Markoguey (10)

Posted 11 years ago.

Hello Sinxar Smile

The idea of active pirates is a lot like the XRM mod. He has that in there now and its great. There are even bounty hunters that are actually trying to make money from hunting people, and the bounty system actually works well.

Yes, I played XRM alot. But I cant agree with some of Yours conclusions. Pirates in XRM are more hostile - for that I can agree, but still they dont take any serious revenge actions on player or races. I boarded about 20+ Mamuths from them - still nothing, so i go for Brigantine, i cap moreless 10, still nothing...
And about XRM - i like this mod, game is bit more complicated with it, also the ideas implemented in mod are in my opinion great, but whole MOD is not bringing rebalance to game. It makes the game unbalanced in many many ways.

The most irritating thing is unbalanced weapon system. Lets take for example Mass Driver. LOL!? - 6 medium fighters equiped with MD can easily destroy M7 class ship. BTW - how pirates clans get this weapon - its the latest invention (so it should be sold only to most trusted pilots) of Argons and Splits. And in XRM more than half pirates ships are equiped with it!?!? Second thing is Missile Rebalance that affect in BAD way M7Ms and M8. Reload time is crazy. (Its look to me like: we dont have any idea how to balance missile system so lets limit it) But doing this, they make M7M (crap ship) where tactics like hit and run is unusable. There are many more examples but I dont name them here - this thread is not about XRM mod.

I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me...

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