To mod or not to mod ?

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jaml

jaml avatar
Level badge Markoguey (10)
Posted 11 years ago.

As we all know there is the same number of fans as opponents of modding. In the discussion under thread "Argon-Terran War" posted by Raptor, I wrote short post about possibility of modding the game to extend AP capabilities. I get few respond-posts so I decided to move MOD subject here.

I dont want to talk disadvantages of moding, but I try to explain why I think modding the game is not bad move. Becouse now I play modded version of AP (XRM - X Rebalance Mod) I will speak of my expirience with this mod.

1. In vanilla AP playing as Terran is very limited. XRM gives new possibilities such as full terran economy and more (more ships including TL, Terran (USC) Police License, HQ for player...)

2. Better weapons system - each race has its own (racialized) weapons and they are all balanced (except Mass Driver, IMO its overpowered now). So for example player will not be able to mount split weaponary on borons ships (i think its very resonable). Some ships have more turrets etc...

3. Ship extensions - like Jump Drive - are much more expansive. In vanilla AP player can afford JD very fast. In XRM AP we realy need to work hard to get one. And even if we have enough money JD ware size was changed to XL so small fighters are unable to have one aboard (IMO really good move)

4. Universe - AP universe map was redesigned (just a bit) and about 50 new sectors was add. New sectors fit really nice in oryginal AP universe, there are also some "shortcuts". With new background and sounds all that looks really good!

Universe is not safe! The danger is everywhere and player can't feel safe even in core sectors. Pirates are now dangerous, and we will not see pirates Zeus alone without an escort. Xenons fleet invading other races sectors are really fearsome. And more - Khaaks are back in the game. They got very good corvetes and destroyers. Khaak military transport ships are not easy prey - thay can launch numbers of fighters to protect them or attack other ships. Sectors controled by hostile races are not as empty as they were sometimes in vanilla. And lasertowers, orbital defence platforms are structures that are really a chalenge. In vanilla AP terran space was preaty safe, now xenons, khaak and pirates wont avoid them, if they find weeknes in terrans defences thay will try to take advantage of this situation.

Shipyards, Research stations... - all was rebuild, In "standard" shipyards we can buy only military ships and stations, all others was moved to corporations watchrooms. (personaly i like that idea) There are also corporations research stations, they have random location (mostly in unknown sectors) and can change their locations during the game. In that research stations player can buy advanced / prototype ships (and they are really good - but not overpowered).

Defences, configurations... - in pure AP lasertowers are like whisk Smile mostly makes me laugh. In XRM lasertowers are really powerful defences. In modded game we have also possibility of buying orbital defence platforms - all three kind of them (small, medium, large). There is much more configurations possibilities. For example I have nice very very big complex where i produce: energy, cristals... but its location is way too far from main tradelines. The nice logical solution is to buy few big transportes to transfer vast numbers of products from complex hub to for expl in Argon Prime and Sizewell using commodity logistics system. In Argon Prime and Sizewell build station/dock that will work as transport hub with some smaller transporters that will sell our goods to nearby sectors. In vanilla AP i can not use for expl Equipment Dock as food ware house, and in XRM I can store any wares I like in it. There are much more changes...

Military Inteligence Network with connection to Police Licenses that player have. This gives a huge advantage and much more possibilities... (check it yourselfs)

Above I give few reasons that in my opinion make modding worth.

Now few words to opponents of modding:
I fully agree to:
- Its EGOSOFT job to make game better;
- It would be better if we had no reason to mod the game
But:
Who know better than (WE) players how our favourite game should look like? Mods are made by players for players.
If we can make game better why not mod it?
The game in vanilla version is enough. Well at start I can agree, but in later-game its boring and XRM is at last trying to fix this.

But as I write at start there is as much fans as opponents of modding. I was not my intention to convincie anyone to mod his game. But I think idea of modding its worth consider, especially when Rebirth will not see daylight soon.

I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me...
BarrenEarth

BarrenEarth avatar
Level badge Proguey (12)
Posted 11 years ago.

I have played the X games modded and vanilla... Modding brings AP, TC and Reunion to life.

The problem that I have is how absolutely unfinished these games are without mods... even the bonus packs are just collections of community mods. There is really no excuse for this and I find myself wondering why I even pay for the games just to then search out ways to make them playable and fun.

I have never been an advocate for piracy, but if I have to get a mod that changes 40%, 50%, 60% of the game just to make it feel complete, then I would feel no shame in Pirate Baying the thing and giving rep to skidrow.

jaml

jaml avatar
Level badge Markoguey (10)
Posted 11 years ago.

That is exacly what I feel. When I first play AP (vanilla) I enjoy it alot, but after I become rich and my military forces become really strong - I was bored. It was like the game loose its colours. Then I found XRM mod on ego-forum, i download it and after instaling the mod even in late-game progres it is givin me much fun and chalenge. There is still much I can do.

I also understand your point of viev about piracy. Just as You I never supported piracy, but after released infos about rebirth I started to wonder. I think in first pleace I want to TRY the game and if I like it then for sure Ill buy oryginal, if no - well there is no point of keeping thing that is unusable for me.

I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me...
Raptor

Raptor avatar
Level badge Instruguey (13)
Posted 11 years ago.

I see that the vanilla version of X3 needs much more interaction (more/longer plots, more-reasonable npc missions, more enemy challenge as I personally missed the Kha'ak, ...etc) rather than new content, in addition to some improvements such as enhanced gameplay experience such as smarter AI/Automation and autopilot (navigation, avoiding collisions and combat skills, for our automated ships).

But as you said, that mod could add more life to the game but it forces me to start a new game and that is waste of time. So as much as I'm waiting X Rebirth, I want it right (good and not need improvement) from the first time. And Rebirth mods should be something like expansion packs, right?

Also the problem, I think, for mods is that they make the game entirely different and I feel like I'm playing another game and I have to get myself familiar with it, and again this is a waste of time as the game already consume much much time you know.

It does not matter what we were in the past but what we are now, what we do and what we are going to be, our destiny.
jaml

jaml avatar
Level badge Markoguey (10)
Posted 11 years ago.

I see that the vanilla version of X3 needs much more interaction (more/longer plots, more-reasonable npc missions, more enemy challenge as I personally missed the Kha'ak, ...etc) rather than new content, in addition to some improvements such as enhanced gameplay experience such as smarter AI/Automation and autopilot (navigation, avoiding collisions and combat skills, for our automated ships).

That is the reason I decided to mod AP.

So as much as I'm waiting X Rebirth, I want it right (good and not need improvement) from the first time

Im not so optimistic about Rebirth as You are. From what I saw or readed about Rebirth Im sure it will not be so perfect as I expected it to be. For example forcing player to fly only one ship - no matter how good this ship is in my opinion it is nothing but forcing us, player, to fly Pride of Egosoft crap. And I dont like it. The second thing is that I really think that Rebirth will not be available for us in 2013. More realistic release date is end of 2014 or 2015y. So I think there is plenty of time ahead of us.

If the starting a new game is time waste - you can always "duplicate" vanilla AP, download NONSTEAM executable and try the mod. If you dont like it, just back to vanilla. For example on my PC i keep 2x AP, 1st is vanilla steam version with old saves, and 2nd is XRM AP that im playing now.

Well XRM, affect AI scripts very deep. AI is not much, but bit smarter, all missions (no plots) was rewrited, also new missions are available. Enemies are much more powerful, and there are Khaaks that you miss (i missed them too in vanilla).

Personaly I think the vanilla version of game should be good enough not to mod it, but it isn't. And as BarrenEarth said Egosoft updates are mostly compiled packs of community mods. So they are already modding their vanilla creation them self.

If You ever decide to try xrm, fell free to ask anything about it Smile



I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me...
Roguey

Roguey avatar
Level badge Trueguey (22)
Posted 11 years ago.

I understand what you guys mean, after-all I created an x3 mod to fill in gaps i thought in x3. I spent a lot of time on it (with help from some talented people)... just to see egosoft put some ideas from mod teams into the next vanilla game. Partly why I haven't done anything for x3tc/x3ap. I also thought x3ap was just a temporary fill in for rebirth. However with x3ap v3 due, this temporary fill in is looking more permanent.

I do think during the x-games we seen very little development in the series. If anything we seen features removed.

BarrenEarth

BarrenEarth avatar
Level badge Proguey (12)
Posted 11 years ago.

I understand what you guys mean, after-all I created an x3 mod to fill in gaps i thought in x3. I spent a lot of time on it (with help from some talented people)... just to see egosoft put some ideas from mod teams into the next vanilla game. Partly why I haven't done anything for x3tc/x3ap. I also thought x3ap was just a temporary fill in for rebirth. However with x3ap v3 due, this temporary fill in is looking more permanent.

I do think during the x-games we seen very little development in the series. If anything we seen features removed.
- Roguey


Now I see why you don't post on the Egosoft forums... the mods would string you up by your pinky toes for that lack of Egosoft butt-kissing.

Roguey

Roguey avatar
Level badge Trueguey (22)
Posted 11 years ago.

Now I see why you don't post on the Egosoft forums... the mods would string you up by your pinky toes for that lack of Egosoft butt-kissing.
- BarrenEarth

I didnt think I was being that harsh? i mean you must emit there are a ton of features we all liked to seen in x, such as shield effects, subsystems, better ai, news from the community, multi-core usage etc. Ego never introduced into the series. what did we see in x3ap? a larger map - bout time!.. if you forget about the graphics side of things.

When you think of it, mod teams are still finding lots to add - somewhat missing features from the vanilla game. However it is good that people are still doing such things for the x-games
Beer

BarrenEarth

BarrenEarth avatar
Level badge Proguey (12)
Posted 11 years ago.

Speaking of mod or not... how does one go back to completely vanilla, no modified tag and original 2.5.3 Albion Prelude when you have the Steam version.

Do I have to delete local content and re-download this 8gb game?

I thought I had done it a while ago without a complete re-install... but I might be thinking of Reunion.

jaml

jaml avatar
Level badge Markoguey (10)
Posted 11 years ago.

Well it all depends on: How you install mod and game itself.
In my case it looks like:
On drive C i have steam downloaded vanilla version of TC/AP. I make copy of it to drive D.
I downloaded from egosoft nonsteam executable AP and x rebalance mod. I installed mod manualy on copy of AP on drive D and put nonsteam ap file there too.
So, when I want to play vanilla AP, I just click ap sortcut, when I want to play xrm ap - I run the game by nonsteam exe file...
The only disadvantage is Saving. Becouse AP (both vanilla and xrm) saves game to same directory, and savegames are not compatibile. So saves 1-4 are reserved for vanilla, saves 5,6,7 are for xrm.
If you instal game like me you dont have to uninstal anything if You ever decide to back to vanilla. Beer

I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me...
BarrenEarth

BarrenEarth avatar
Level badge Proguey (12)
Posted 11 years ago.

I used cycrow's advanced mod manager and script installer. Had the basics installed like ware manager, missile scripts, cheat package, fleet scripts. Just a collection of stuff that I had found.

I had also manually edited the tbullets to turn down the flamethrower and up it's energy use.

I ran a steam file verification and it said 6 files were re-downloaded. I have not had time to test yet after using Cycrow's manager to "go back to vanilla".

Roguey

Roguey avatar
Level badge Trueguey (22)
Posted 11 years ago.

kindof depends on the mod, some you can simply unselect the mod package (from the startup screen) and thats enough. However some mods actually go further and add/change files outside the cat/dat package.

You need to remove any extra files and replace with the signed version. If all files are signed then x thinks its a vanilla game.

Oh, and save files can also be marked has modified. If you save a 'load' that has modified files, your save will be tagged as modified. There is no way to remove it from the save as I know once its been tagged 'modified'.

BarrenEarth

BarrenEarth avatar
Level badge Proguey (12)
Posted 11 years ago.

I just tried a new savage split start and was tagged modified. So off I went removing local content in steam, manually deleting folders from old TC box install and then finding reg keys and hidden app folders.

Now Albion Prelude is downloading again.

I just want to play AP in it's terrible vanilla state one more time before 3.0 comes out, then one more time again. Then I am going to retire from Egosoft games and focus on Borderlands 2 and work.

BorisHristovStoychev

BorisHristovStoychev avatar
Level badge Rookiguey (4)
Posted 11 years ago.

I remember how back in the days of TES: Oblivion i was strictly against modding and i even refused to read information about them.

Now i can't imagine playing vanilla X again. I mean, there are so many improvements introduced by mods. I want to be able to use TLs for trading - mod. I want to be able to see universal information about wares - mod. I want to be able to contact any station within my satellite network - mod (we are in a world with space ships, jump drives, lasers and you can't place a call beyond 25 km?? REALLY????). Or maybe all the stations and tubes are hurting my FPS - mod. And so on. Of course, there are some "unbalanced" mods, for example spawning of derelict ships, but it's up to each individual person to decide what's "balanced" for him.

I am planning to try XRM after i'm done experimenting with mods for my current game.

BarrenEarth

BarrenEarth avatar
Level badge Proguey (12)
Posted 11 years ago.

I remember how back in the days of TES: Oblivion i was strictly against modding and i even refused to read information about them.

Now i can't imagine playing vanilla X again. I mean, there are so many improvements introduced by mods. I want to be able to use TLs for trading - mod. I want to be able to see universal information about wares - mod. I want to be able to contact any station within my satellite network - mod (we are in a world with space ships, jump drives, lasers and you can't place a call beyond 25 km?? REALLY????). Or maybe all the stations and tubes are hurting my FPS - mod. And so on. Of course, there are some "unbalanced" mods, for example spawning of derelict ships, but it's up to each individual person to decide what's "balanced" for him.

I am planning to try XRM after i'm done experimenting with mods for my current game.
- BorisHristovStoychev



How about the "I want my spaceship to go faster than my 1993 Chevy Cavalier" Mod...

Seriously flying around in a Titan is like going a little over 140km/h... My old Cavalier was governed at 175km/h

JackKiller2266

JackKiller2266 avatar
Level badge Markoguey (10)
Posted 11 years ago.

49 m/s(the in game speed) = 176.4 kph u know that right? (also 1 m/s = 3.6 Kph or Km/h)

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