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Should Rebirth support DirectX 11/64 bit?
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Should Rebirth support DirectX 11/64 bit?
BarrenEarth
Proguey (12)
Proguey (12)
Posted 11 years ago.
DirectX11 not only looks better but performs better because modern Graphics Cards are built to use the Direct3d APIs directly.
Also you do know that OpenGL support in Windows XP was dropped altogether about 3 years ago... so what was your point again?
By the way, for professional graphics like CAD design and ERP solutions I love OpenGL... in fact I have used it in animation for certain business platform softwares... but OpenGL was never meant for low-level High-performance application like gaming, evidenced by the crap miniGL drivers and API's that were around during Directx9 days.
BarrenEarth
Proguey (12)
Proguey (12)
Posted 11 years ago.
Look, even for companies like Valve who make games to purposfully be faster in OpenGL than Direct3d the war was over when Microsoft hindered the OS support for GL.
Valve: OpenGL is faster than DirectX — even on Windows
"Really, it all comes down to that crummy old thing we call the network effect — and, of course, monopolistic heft and marketing dollars. DirectX, because it has a cleaner API and better documentation, is easier to learn. More developers using DirectX = more DirectX games = better driver support. This is a vicious loop that again leads to more DX devs, more DX games, and better DX drivers/tools/documentation. Microsoft has relentlessly marketed DirectX, too — and who can forget the release of Windows Vista and Microsoft’s OpenGL smear campaign? Vista’s bundled version of OpenGL was completely crippled, forcing many devs to switch to DirectX"
So don't think you are always wrong... you can be right and also be very wrong
Valve: OpenGL is faster than DirectX — even on Windows
"Really, it all comes down to that crummy old thing we call the network effect — and, of course, monopolistic heft and marketing dollars. DirectX, because it has a cleaner API and better documentation, is easier to learn. More developers using DirectX = more DirectX games = better driver support. This is a vicious loop that again leads to more DX devs, more DX games, and better DX drivers/tools/documentation. Microsoft has relentlessly marketed DirectX, too — and who can forget the release of Windows Vista and Microsoft’s OpenGL smear campaign? Vista’s bundled version of OpenGL was completely crippled, forcing many devs to switch to DirectX"
So don't think you are always wrong... you can be right and also be very wrong
Raptor
Instruguey (13)
Instruguey (13)
Posted 11 years ago.
Let me review something:
Rebirth itself has no serious problem with DX9 nor as a 32-bit game, as it should run normally on, for example, Windows 7 64-bit, but we are talking about the new engine that will be used not only to create Rebirth but also its updates (and MODs) and the next game(s), and that means several years for this new engine, so we are interested.
The good news is..., Egosoft are trying to save time and release Rebirth as soon as possible and then upgrade the engine later. That's what I think
Rebirth itself has no serious problem with DX9 nor as a 32-bit game, as it should run normally on, for example, Windows 7 64-bit, but we are talking about the new engine that will be used not only to create Rebirth but also its updates (and MODs) and the next game(s), and that means several years for this new engine, so we are interested.
The good news is..., Egosoft are trying to save time and release Rebirth as soon as possible and then upgrade the engine later. That's what I think
It does not matter what we were in the past but what we are now, what we do and what we are going to be, our destiny.
jaml
Markoguey (10)
Markoguey (10)
Posted 11 years ago.
@Sinxar
@BarrenEarth
Baren, from my knowledge I must say that Sinxar is right about that one.
OpenGL = OPEN GRAPHICS LIBRARY, it contains almost all feautures as DX. Take look at linux games, some of them looks much better than games on windows (DX). The point is that DX have a huge support from companies like gforce & ati, why? Its about the money. If you want to know more:
http://www.opengl.org/
The problem is similar to the "windows vs linux", and ability of coding itself.
OpenGL is as good, as DX.
@BarrenEarth
Besides, OpenGL sucks for gaming.
Baren, from my knowledge I must say that Sinxar is right about that one.
OpenGL = OPEN GRAPHICS LIBRARY, it contains almost all feautures as DX. Take look at linux games, some of them looks much better than games on windows (DX). The point is that DX have a huge support from companies like gforce & ati, why? Its about the money. If you want to know more:
http://www.opengl.org/
The problem is similar to the "windows vs linux", and ability of coding itself.
OpenGL is as good, as DX.
I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me...
Roguey
Trueguey (22)
Trueguey (22)
Posted 11 years ago.
A bit harsh, I wouldnt say openGL sucks just that its not used as much. I remmeber using OpenGL on things like Quake3 and it was great however not many games nowadays use it. I guess one reason being that openGL is a graphics interface, whilst directx being a whole package (music, input, sound etc). MS bound to refined the API, making it easier to program.
People are lazy generally, if they dont like something they dont bother - no comment, no feedback. Whilst you have to multiply the numbers a bit, I can understand that it may not cover everyone - however what poll ever does? Maybe its not many votes, although thats not totally my fault. At one stage my rebirth site had over 500+ visitors a day but now its unlucky to get 100. Interest in the x-games has fallen on a whole - the amount of visitors has dropped by 2/3 now. We lucky to see 1,000 visitors when I used to run well over 3,000 a day.
So yes, its not that many votes but equally its probably from fans who waited for so long. Its not terrible (using the old API's), it does question the future of the x-games. Its not going to last long based on deprecated API's. Sooner or later support for them will be gone altogether - effecting up-to 60% of gamers (thats most of their market).
ps. that benchmark looks amazing.
You have 18 votes out of what? Perhaps a few hundred thousand (or more) unique players that are wanting to see X:R as much as us. Are we talking like the FOX network here where 1 person offended = a million viewers offended?
People are lazy generally, if they dont like something they dont bother - no comment, no feedback. Whilst you have to multiply the numbers a bit, I can understand that it may not cover everyone - however what poll ever does? Maybe its not many votes, although thats not totally my fault. At one stage my rebirth site had over 500+ visitors a day but now its unlucky to get 100. Interest in the x-games has fallen on a whole - the amount of visitors has dropped by 2/3 now. We lucky to see 1,000 visitors when I used to run well over 3,000 a day.
So yes, its not that many votes but equally its probably from fans who waited for so long. Its not terrible (using the old API's), it does question the future of the x-games. Its not going to last long based on deprecated API's. Sooner or later support for them will be gone altogether - effecting up-to 60% of gamers (thats most of their market).
ps. that benchmark looks amazing.
BarrenEarth
Proguey (12)
Proguey (12)
Posted 11 years ago.
Jaml you are right, there are some great OpenGL made games out there. Kinda sucks that Nvidia has no support for the newest OpenGL4.3 in any of their last two series of graphics cards and won't have support for it until 2015.
DirectX11 with Direct3d libraries are generally better for windows platforms, 64bit systems and like Roguey said MS made it really easy to develop and access the hardware through your game engine. It also is a complete package with better UI, sound api's and since it was designed by MS to work on MS OS it is a bit more efficient.
That being said OpenGL is the best multi-platform graphics library system to have if you are concerned about Mac, Linux, Android AND Windows.
But the 90% of us using Windows would prefer they stick to complete, refined and understandable DirectX anything.
DirectX11 with Direct3d libraries are generally better for windows platforms, 64bit systems and like Roguey said MS made it really easy to develop and access the hardware through your game engine. It also is a complete package with better UI, sound api's and since it was designed by MS to work on MS OS it is a bit more efficient.
That being said OpenGL is the best multi-platform graphics library system to have if you are concerned about Mac, Linux, Android AND Windows.
But the 90% of us using Windows would prefer they stick to complete, refined and understandable DirectX anything.
jaml
Markoguey (10)
Markoguey (10)
Posted 11 years ago.
I agree with You BarrenEarth. The lack of support for openGL is pain in the...
The problem with DX is more complex. OpenGL is crossplatform, it gives same + and - in both win and linux systems. But the biggest problem is windows itself. The benefits of using windows are well known to us (compatybility, support, easylife), but the reason that coders aren't doning good job now is also windows. Ie what for write/upgrade new soultions, better algorythms etc... lets use existing one that DX contains. And beside that, ask any of modern coders how much of them use assembler. I can bet 90%+ use visual C or similar environment. Why? Becouse it's pure economy. If someone is "crazy" enough to write pure executable in asm code it will require tons of hard work days. It's much faster and easier to use existing soultions, and build an application in ie visual C and let the compiler do the hard job with code optimisation + compatybility.
The problem with DX is more complex. OpenGL is crossplatform, it gives same + and - in both win and linux systems. But the biggest problem is windows itself. The benefits of using windows are well known to us (compatybility, support, easylife), but the reason that coders aren't doning good job now is also windows. Ie what for write/upgrade new soultions, better algorythms etc... lets use existing one that DX contains. And beside that, ask any of modern coders how much of them use assembler. I can bet 90%+ use visual C or similar environment. Why? Becouse it's pure economy. If someone is "crazy" enough to write pure executable in asm code it will require tons of hard work days. It's much faster and easier to use existing soultions, and build an application in ie visual C and let the compiler do the hard job with code optimisation + compatybility.
I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me...
BarrenEarth
Proguey (12)
Proguey (12)
Posted 11 years ago.
YOu are 100% correct that DirectX11 has an advantage in Windows because it was made by MS and they have an interest in making it work better than OpenGL.
That being said, it prove my point that OpenGL is crap for games (That are Windows Market Driven) because DX has cornered the market with Windows optimizations.
We are saying the same thing, only your beef is that MS made it superior instead of it being superior by it's own rights, which I understand.
FYI... my favorite game uses OpenGL... but was written in Java which also blows for games. But mad props to anyone who can make a game by himself with about 10k in costs... and sell 12 million copies at about $17 in profit a pop.
That being said, it prove my point that OpenGL is crap for games (That are Windows Market Driven) because DX has cornered the market with Windows optimizations.
We are saying the same thing, only your beef is that MS made it superior instead of it being superior by it's own rights, which I understand.
FYI... my favorite game uses OpenGL... but was written in Java which also blows for games. But mad props to anyone who can make a game by himself with about 10k in costs... and sell 12 million copies at about $17 in profit a pop.
BarrenEarth
Proguey (12)
Proguey (12)
Posted 11 years ago.
This is what they are up against... and this is just a raw shot without any of the refined graphics effects yet...
BarrenEarth
Proguey (12)
Proguey (12)
Posted 11 years ago.
Seeing as there are only what, 60 active members here... I would say it is safe to say MOST here support DX11/64 bit and will thus be disappointed.
Raptor
Instruguey (13)
Instruguey (13)
Posted 11 years ago.
I'm sure Egosoft developer team are aware of this matter and I think they are now just trying to finish and release the game as fast as possible, or they would better do. X Rebirth is supposed to be the greatest game from Egosoft so far, but it won't be the greatest if they didn't finish it soon.
It does not matter what we were in the past but what we are now, what we do and what we are going to be, our destiny.
Roguey
Trueguey (22)
Trueguey (22)
Posted 11 years ago.
Well what got me on the egosoft forum, one of the mods said you should wait and see what its like, before knocking dx9... however thats all we been doing for the past couple of years; waiting! I wonder how long ago the basic structure was decided - 5/6 years ago?
Im not sure how keen I am on - We may look at it after release either. As ego wouldnt need to, once they got people's money. I know ego have supported their games in the past, but thats no guarantee that would happen in Rebirth. Once its released ego could simply say: we building a new engine, so work on the Rebirth engine has stopped.
Im not sure how keen I am on - We may look at it after release either. As ego wouldnt need to, once they got people's money. I know ego have supported their games in the past, but thats no guarantee that would happen in Rebirth. Once its released ego could simply say: we building a new engine, so work on the Rebirth engine has stopped.
jaml
Markoguey (10)
Markoguey (10)
Posted 11 years ago.
To be honest, I've read about SC some time ago. Sience that I try to be up to date with all news about it. I'm really impressed. The graphics is more than awesome (for now). If they manage to create trading/building etc... at same high level and playability as the graphics, physics... I'm 101% sure I will play Star Citizen. And I like the idea that there every $ is going directly for game.
And about Rebirth, well as we can see Egosoft is starting to loose ground under their feet. Lets assume that the DX9 will be enough to have very good graphics. But there will be games that offer awesome graphics. Full dx11 support + multicpu/ multicore + 64bit etc..., so if there will be two simmilar games (like Rebirth & SC) in same (or not much different) price, ask Your selfs which one You will buy? I know we can have both installed on ours pc. But SC and Rebirth aren't 24...48 hours games. Both titles can be play for a two or three months ...or more... so I dont think that there will be much ppl who will play both at the same time. So in my humble opinion Egosoft needs a miracle...
/edit:/
@roguey, btw:
Some time ago You said that you considering adding new game for the forum. Maby this title is / or can be SC ?
And about Rebirth, well as we can see Egosoft is starting to loose ground under their feet. Lets assume that the DX9 will be enough to have very good graphics. But there will be games that offer awesome graphics. Full dx11 support + multicpu/ multicore + 64bit etc..., so if there will be two simmilar games (like Rebirth & SC) in same (or not much different) price, ask Your selfs which one You will buy? I know we can have both installed on ours pc. But SC and Rebirth aren't 24...48 hours games. Both titles can be play for a two or three months ...or more... so I dont think that there will be much ppl who will play both at the same time. So in my humble opinion Egosoft needs a miracle...
/edit:/
@roguey, btw:
Some time ago You said that you considering adding new game for the forum. Maby this title is / or can be SC ?
I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me...
BarrenEarth
Proguey (12)
Proguey (12)
Posted 11 years ago.
Jaml... the problem for Egosoft is that if they want to recoup their costs... which have to be in the millions now after 5 years of dedicated dev payroll, they have to be better than Star Citizen.
Never underestimate the power of Chris Roberts... he is kinda like an even nerdier version of George Lucas... Remember all the crappy Star Wars and Star Trek games... every one of them sold 10x or 50x the amount of Egosoft's games. Chris Roberts is a legend, everything he touches is gold.
Also it should be noted that from white board concept to the point where Chris is releasing beta versions for testing has been less than half the time Egosoft has spent developing Rebirth... and Chris has half the staff and used his own money + a kickstarter for the funding.
Never underestimate the power of Chris Roberts... he is kinda like an even nerdier version of George Lucas... Remember all the crappy Star Wars and Star Trek games... every one of them sold 10x or 50x the amount of Egosoft's games. Chris Roberts is a legend, everything he touches is gold.
Also it should be noted that from white board concept to the point where Chris is releasing beta versions for testing has been less than half the time Egosoft has spent developing Rebirth... and Chris has half the staff and used his own money + a kickstarter for the funding.
BarrenEarth
Proguey (12)
Proguey (12)
Posted 11 years ago.
I am going to be a dick... sorry I just have to
Would you rather see this:
And This?
Or this?
The first one isn't even from Star Citizen... it is from Sq 42.
Would you rather see this:
And This?
Or this?
The first one isn't even from Star Citizen... it is from Sq 42.
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