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Roguey, the reason most people don't expect as much is because X games are supposed to be huge, people assume that is a lot of graphics stress... what they fail to realize is X games have a tiny amount (.5%) of content for the size of the space you can "see"
There is a back drop that takes up 99.5% of the sector and is 2D. Then there might be 10 stations and 30 ships and a couple asteroids, a gate or two. But these items are tiny when you consider even older graphics games like Skyrim your system has to render millions of blades of grass, + the 3D items like your character, weapons and effects. About the hardest thing on your computer in X3 is the lighting effects (which would be so much better in DX11).
Egosoft and Rebirth
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Egosoft and Rebirth
BarrenEarth
Proguey (12)
Proguey (12)
Posted 11 years ago.
Roguey
Trueguey (22)
Trueguey (22)
Posted 11 years ago.
Very true, space is for the most part empty. Although sometimes I feel space-games waste a lot of polys. If I remember right the shipyard model is like 21mb... Does it really need that much? I'd rather seen more ships or something than waste that many polys in a single thing.
I understand that background graphics in space games don't use much resources. That why in other games I appropriate the backgrounds, such in games like tomb raider.. Has there is so much going on.
I understand that background graphics in space games don't use much resources. That why in other games I appropriate the backgrounds, such in games like tomb raider.. Has there is so much going on.
jaml
Markoguey (10)
Markoguey (10)
Posted 11 years ago.
What I seen so far in vids posted by Ego "making of rebirth" I must say that Im little disappointed. In fact, after wathing last one (the one in english) I wonder what is that guy trying to say??? Lol, they work about performance - to squeeze 1-2 fps more... In all vids they presented We can see "front view" from ship + cockpit. And that cocpit is basicly constant part of screen so rendering area is limited. I dont know if there is an option to turn it off, but if no - I realy thing that new ego's grapthics engine isn't very good. I also agree that rebirth, which is developed 2013+ should have DX11 support, its a shame that ego isn't taking advantage of new hardware and soft solutions.
I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me...
Fallent
Fightguey (6)
Fightguey (6)
Posted 11 years ago.
So what do you guys think?
Are we going to keep getting these "Making of" videos every couple weeks for awhile longer, followed by the marketing campaign and release or a couple more videos then months of complete silence all over again?
Part of me is hopeful new vids = release soon, part of me thinks I'm just dreaming.
Are we going to keep getting these "Making of" videos every couple weeks for awhile longer, followed by the marketing campaign and release or a couple more videos then months of complete silence all over again?
Part of me is hopeful new vids = release soon, part of me thinks I'm just dreaming.
jaml
Markoguey (10)
Markoguey (10)
Posted 11 years ago.
For me resonable release date is 2014+. I think they have some trubles with new x that we not aware of. And probably they make some reading about what ppl think and what are they expectations. At start I was really optimistic about rebirth, but now I'm realy confused. For sure this vids don't answer most important questions. We still dont know anything about new game core, graphics engine. For example I wish to know how many cpu(s) cores rebirth will be able to use, how many ram will be possible to adress by game itself, will it take advantage of sli-bridge... Beside the technical questions there are also a lot of unknown about gameplay...
I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me...
BarrenEarth
Proguey (12)
Proguey (12)
Posted 11 years ago.
CBJ: "Don't panic. Highways are the predominant means of transport between areas of interest, but there is still room for the odd gate or two."
Guys who were hoping for an open universe not limited by "Sectors" are sadly disappointed. It has also been confirmed that you can't "get off" the highway system any time you want, just at predetermined spots.
Guys who were hoping for an open universe not limited by "Sectors" are sadly disappointed. It has also been confirmed that you can't "get off" the highway system any time you want, just at predetermined spots.
Raptor
Instruguey (13)
Instruguey (13)
Posted 11 years ago.
The reason (I think) for navigation limitation is that:
Consider a cube (or a sphere) of millions of kilometers (the size of just one solar system) length (or radius). What about a galaxy and not just a solar system, the size of the game universe?. If we can navigate in every meter of that universe and experience details (objects, stations, ships, planets, asteroid fields ...etc) as we navigate then we could need an extremely powerful hardware (and 1000s of GB game size) to handle such a universe.
That's why the game, to be playable, needs gates & highways & jump-drives and things like those, don't you think?
However there is still a lot of space to explore, build, ...etc, but not that much large space as the real one.
I know you know all of that but i just wanted to review with you
ps. A game like Tomb Raider is also limited, we are limited within certain areas (maps), and so as all FPS and most (if not all) other games, right?
Consider a cube (or a sphere) of millions of kilometers (the size of just one solar system) length (or radius). What about a galaxy and not just a solar system, the size of the game universe?. If we can navigate in every meter of that universe and experience details (objects, stations, ships, planets, asteroid fields ...etc) as we navigate then we could need an extremely powerful hardware (and 1000s of GB game size) to handle such a universe.
That's why the game, to be playable, needs gates & highways & jump-drives and things like those, don't you think?
However there is still a lot of space to explore, build, ...etc, but not that much large space as the real one.
I know you know all of that but i just wanted to review with you
ps. A game like Tomb Raider is also limited, we are limited within certain areas (maps), and so as all FPS and most (if not all) other games, right?
It does not matter what we were in the past but what we are now, what we do and what we are going to be, our destiny.
Roguey
Trueguey (22)
Trueguey (22)
Posted 11 years ago.
Games like Tomb-raider etc. are like a different kettle of fish to me. These games may have a smaller area, however they are very very packed with detail: plants, mountains, trees, building, paths etc. Tomb-raider is open-area once you beat the game, as you can walk/climb from the start to the end without having to load, or enter a portal / link (a gate)... even Lara's hair is made-up of individual hair strands, with physics and shadows applied to them (although you could turn this off).
However space is a different setup altogether; its mostly empty for starters - there no floor, no sky and no textures having to fill your screen up.. well, just one of some stars. Objects can simply appear from no-where and fade into view. In the scene above, there must be 1000's of objects, and a LOD system to keep the game smooth. However in a space-game most of the objects could be simply out-of-your-view. If SETA is removed, then surely with mutlple cores then a countless amount of AI ships should be able to explore on their own (this basically happens in X-games already, without of sector calculations). Why does a ship need to be out-of-sector, cant it be out-of-view? its still got to be stored somewhere in memory and processed.
To me, this sounds like a back-track. Rebirth was a too big of project, so they re-scaled back to X3AP (with gates/pipes/roads).
However space is a different setup altogether; its mostly empty for starters - there no floor, no sky and no textures having to fill your screen up.. well, just one of some stars. Objects can simply appear from no-where and fade into view. In the scene above, there must be 1000's of objects, and a LOD system to keep the game smooth. However in a space-game most of the objects could be simply out-of-your-view. If SETA is removed, then surely with mutlple cores then a countless amount of AI ships should be able to explore on their own (this basically happens in X-games already, without of sector calculations). Why does a ship need to be out-of-sector, cant it be out-of-view? its still got to be stored somewhere in memory and processed.
"Dont panic. Highways are the predominant means of transport between areas of interest, but there is still room for the odd gate or two."
- CBJ
- CBJ
To me, this sounds like a back-track. Rebirth was a too big of project, so they re-scaled back to X3AP (with gates/pipes/roads).
Raptor
Instruguey (13)
Instruguey (13)
Posted 11 years ago.
Hello Roguey,
I understand what you said and I fully agree but you might didn't understand me? take a look at this:
The sum of the areas/volumes of all sectors in 'Theory I' is something like millionth the area/volume of the open space in 'Theory II', you can imagine.
So the game just can't handle that really big space (we are talking about a galaxy!!! not just a solar system), right?
I understand what you said and I fully agree but you might didn't understand me?
take a look at this:
The sum of the areas/volumes of all sectors in 'Theory I' is something like millionth the area/volume of the open space in 'Theory II', you can imagine.
So the game just can't handle that really big space (we are talking about a galaxy!!! not just a solar system), right?
It does not matter what we were in the past but what we are now, what we do and what we are going to be, our destiny.
BarrenEarth
Proguey (12)
Proguey (12)
Posted 11 years ago.
Raptor, theory II would defy everything that we already have confirmed for the game.
We know that there is no SETA
We know that there are "Highways" that speed up a ship (To act like a seta)
We know that Highways are pretty much get on and get off with very little in them or to interact with them.
We know that there are still some gates, which means there are some kind of concentrated population areas, or sectors
We know that there is no SETA
We know that there are "Highways" that speed up a ship (To act like a seta)
We know that Highways are pretty much get on and get off with very little in them or to interact with them.
We know that there are still some gates, which means there are some kind of concentrated population areas, or sectors
Raptor
Instruguey (13)
Instruguey (13)
Posted 11 years ago.
Yeah, that's exactly what I'm talking about.
The space in the game cannot be like the one in 'theory ii'
The space in the game cannot be like the one in 'theory ii'
It does not matter what we were in the past but what we are now, what we do and what we are going to be, our destiny.
Roguey
Trueguey (22)
Trueguey (22)
Posted 11 years ago.
Well theory 1 is basically what we already got in x3tc/x3ap. It seems the links have been replaced by highways.. Which will probably turn into gates in some form. Ie. You enter, the come out somewhere else.
As for gates, we have already seen them in rebirth - just look in the lod video (the gate is left on screen).
However with no seta, travelling around a sector is going to be rather boring.
Maybe it was ambitious to have one really big place, but I would of liked it. It was kind-of suggested a while back, that gates might of been removed.
Sounding more and more like x3ap II.
As for gates, we have already seen them in rebirth - just look in the lod video (the gate is left on screen).
However with no seta, travelling around a sector is going to be rather boring.
Maybe it was ambitious to have one really big place, but I would of liked it. It was kind-of suggested a while back, that gates might of been removed.
Sounding more and more like x3ap II.
BarrenEarth
Proguey (12)
Proguey (12)
Posted 11 years ago.
They got rid of SETA to give the feeling the universe is bigger than it is...
I still contend to this day that Skyrim is exponentially larger in size than X-Universe simply because in total there are only 1000 stations and about 10,000 ships in the Universe at a given time... in Skyrim there are over 1 million objects and creatures all with far more complex coding than a jobs script.
Wow... the more we talk, the more I feel Rebirth is not only going to be ho hum, but perhaps the end of EgoSoft.
I still contend to this day that Skyrim is exponentially larger in size than X-Universe simply because in total there are only 1000 stations and about 10,000 ships in the Universe at a given time... in Skyrim there are over 1 million objects and creatures all with far more complex coding than a jobs script.
Wow... the more we talk, the more I feel Rebirth is not only going to be ho hum, but perhaps the end of EgoSoft.
Roguey
Trueguey (22)
Trueguey (22)
Posted 11 years ago.
I still contend to this day that Skyrim is exponentially larger in size than X-Universe simply because in total there are only 1000 stations and about 10,000 ships in the Universe at a given time... in Skyrim there are over 1 million objects and creatures all with far more complex coding than a jobs script.
This was what I was trying to get at with Tomb-Raider: there is a lot of objects (1000's) tightly-packed in one scene. So a few 1000 ships in whole universe doesnt sound has demanding has it once was.
When a ship is out-of-view/out-of-sector, it is simply an object with some information (it doesnt need a model).. just x, y, z etc. As we know in X3AP/TC the AI for out-of-sector is very stripped-down, and the combat is a bit like trumps.
I personally think a lot of performance is lost in scripts; this MD / xml language isnt very native to cpu's and very bulky. Just have a look at one in a text-editor, there like two sets of text, the bottom set being very confusing.
BarrenEarth
Proguey (12)
Proguey (12)
Posted 11 years ago.
XML is used a ton in games like Civ5... and they can get away with it because it is turn based and you really can't complain when it takes 3 or 4 minutes for 10 AI to calculate out their move.
I am not sure how well it will work in a RTS or RT-Sim. I guess it has been done before, but Egosoft must be dumbing down the jobs scripts then.
Also while you got the basic gist of what I was saying I was also saying the the world itself in Skyrim, Fallout, and many other games is 1000 times larger. There are what, less than 300 sectors in the unmodded game, most empty. Gate to gate, this game is rather small for something that professes to be a behemoth of sandbox adventure.
I am not sure how well it will work in a RTS or RT-Sim. I guess it has been done before, but Egosoft must be dumbing down the jobs scripts then.
Also while you got the basic gist of what I was saying I was also saying the the world itself in Skyrim, Fallout, and many other games is 1000 times larger. There are what, less than 300 sectors in the unmodded game, most empty. Gate to gate, this game is rather small for something that professes to be a behemoth of sandbox adventure.
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