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It eventually just becomes second nature, so I don't feel the need to save many any more
Questions by Redheart, Answers by you
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Questions by Redheart, Answers by you
Kirlack
Specoguey (14)
Specoguey (14)
Posted 11 years ago.
No, I guess that's a normal reaction when learning the ropes of CLS use, I did much the same at first It eventually just becomes second nature, so I don't feel the need to save many any more
It eventually just becomes second nature, so I don't feel the need to save many any more
Madder than a Bastard on fathers day.
My DiDs: Peace(s) of Eight - Way of the Gun - Status: Online, A Xenon DiD
My DiDs: Peace(s) of Eight - Way of the Gun - Status: Online, A Xenon DiD
redheart
Eagleguey (11)
Eagleguey (11)
Posted 11 years ago.
Well here is another CLS question. What is the Internal CLS used for? I have not used it at all. I have used the CAG and the External CLS and now I am wondering just what the Internal option is for. Edit: So I think I figured it out. You can use the Internal option if you want to sell products from one station to other stations. Basically you just do the routing for the ship from one to the others.
In that case, Which is better to use for moving energy cells from your energy source to your complex? With the external, my pilots continued to stop and for the life of me I dont know why. Could be I had too many ships trying to land at the same time, not sure. With the internal, they are still doing the same thing as the commands with external but they dont stop now. Then again...I only made two internal and none of the others are stopping either...sigh.
I figured out that my Main Complex cost a total of $409,862,664 credits. I know that is small time but I am thinking that I need to get a station set up to shuttle all my products to so it can take some of the traffic away from my main complex. I am thinking that there are too many ships trying to dock at the same time so it kicks some of them into stopping mode.
In that case, Which is better to use for moving energy cells from your energy source to your complex? With the external, my pilots continued to stop and for the life of me I dont know why. Could be I had too many ships trying to land at the same time, not sure. With the internal, they are still doing the same thing as the commands with external but they dont stop now. Then again...I only made two internal and none of the others are stopping either...sigh.
I figured out that my Main Complex cost a total of $409,862,664 credits. I know that is small time but I am thinking that I need to get a station set up to shuttle all my products to so it can take some of the traffic away from my main complex. I am thinking that there are too many ships trying to dock at the same time so it kicks some of them into stopping mode.
RandomTank
Assoguey (17)
Assoguey (17)
Posted 11 years ago.
Well you figured it out, but internal CLS is kind of pointless because complex kits replace their purpose; there is still applications of filling up Trade Stations and EQ docks, but it was most useful back in the day of X2 where there was no Complex kits. I've only recently dabbled in the area of CLS, but I've been using CAGs for years (started back in the day when it was called the BPH Upgrade Kit and was sold from Boron EQ docks!).
Docking ports filling up is a problem on some bigger complexes with many freighters, if it's because they don't spend a lot of time in space and return to wait at the station for ages, program them to wait somewhere else or put some useless station stops into their loop to increase the time they spend away from home base. Another idea is to use a warehouse, which works as follows: Say you're producing energy cells, and you got too many freighters waiting to deliever their loads at your Power plant Complex, you could just build another complex with 2-4 deactivated Cattle farm L's or Teladianium Foundries to store energy, then just get a CLS apprentice to fill it up with E-cells; you could then assign half your Energy traders/freighters from the Power Plant to take energy from there instead, as it has another 20 docking spots!
I wouldn't say 400mill was that small time, that's quite a few stations (unless it was a load of power plants), and could take you a while to save up for!
Docking ports filling up is a problem on some bigger complexes with many freighters, if it's because they don't spend a lot of time in space and return to wait at the station for ages, program them to wait somewhere else or put some useless station stops into their loop to increase the time they spend away from home base. Another idea is to use a warehouse, which works as follows: Say you're producing energy cells, and you got too many freighters waiting to deliever their loads at your Power plant Complex, you could just build another complex with 2-4 deactivated Cattle farm L's or Teladianium Foundries to store energy, then just get a CLS apprentice to fill it up with E-cells; you could then assign half your Energy traders/freighters from the Power Plant to take energy from there instead, as it has another 20 docking spots!
I wouldn't say 400mill was that small time, that's quite a few stations (unless it was a load of power plants), and could take you a while to save up for!
I will be the one to take you down!
redheart
Eagleguey (11)
Eagleguey (11)
Posted 11 years ago.
I was thinking the same thing RandomTank. I am going to purchase one of the Boron Trade Centers or whatever its called and try to see if I can use that for my distribution point. It is true for them, that they have no max on ships docking right? Then I would just shuttle everything to and from there. And hey jack, there are only 5 Solar XL at that complex.
Hammerit
Stickguey (8)
Stickguey (8)
Posted 11 years ago.
400 Mill is pocket change 
. Na just kidding.
It surely takes a while to save up enough to be able to build an expandable, self-sufficient complex capable of generating enough earnings to quickly fund the expansions. Personally I always set up basic "floter" complexes first that aren't self-sufficient, but maximize the return on investment.
A good strategy to boost your income early on is to build missiles/weapons complexes and cover all bug one imput ressource internally. Ideally it should be missiles/weapons the target race doesn't produce itself meaning your wares will always sell in unlimited quantities (target: equipment docks / military outposts). Energy is usually available in abundance, very cheap and can be transported in huge quantities so it's ideal as the sole input ressource for these complexes. Especially since power plans are very pricey and need crystals which are always in short supply. The best thing is GOD sooner or later starting to cover all your needs because your complexes will put the energy consumption in their respective neighborhoods in overdrive.
In most cases this completely obliberates the local economy giving you a nice opening for a hostile takeover once you've got enough cash
.
. Na just kidding.
It surely takes a while to save up enough to be able to build an expandable, self-sufficient complex capable of generating enough earnings to quickly fund the expansions. Personally I always set up basic "floter" complexes first that aren't self-sufficient, but maximize the return on investment.
A good strategy to boost your income early on is to build missiles/weapons complexes and cover all bug one imput ressource internally. Ideally it should be missiles/weapons the target race doesn't produce itself meaning your wares will always sell in unlimited quantities (target: equipment docks / military outposts). Energy is usually available in abundance, very cheap and can be transported in huge quantities so it's ideal as the sole input ressource for these complexes. Especially since power plans are very pricey and need crystals which are always in short supply. The best thing is GOD sooner or later starting to cover all your needs because your complexes will put the energy consumption in their respective neighborhoods in overdrive.
In most cases this completely obliberates the local economy giving you a nice opening for a hostile takeover once you've got enough cash
.
redheart
Eagleguey (11)
Eagleguey (11)
Posted 11 years ago.
Thanks for the input Hammerit. I have been doing what you suggested already and I have a nice income that allows me to expand at a good rate. I have one issue now that I am trying to deal with, pirates. I have the pirates hostile to me and have been trying to increase my rep with them. I have done 3-4 missions for the pirate bases as they are not hostile to me and I think it is helping. Now the hostile pirates leave me alone instead of chasing me but they are still red and still will attack if I get too close.
I am also trying to Space Fuel to them in hopes that will increase my rep too.
I am also trying to Space Fuel to them in hopes that will increase my rep too.
Hammerit
Stickguey (8)
Stickguey (8)
Posted 11 years ago.
There's not much else you can do. However keep in mind that some pirates are always hostile as their relation to you does not depend on the hidden notoriety value between pirates and you. And that pirates may be hostile by default because of your game start so it might be worth checking your personal settings. If that's the case even pirates which are friendly towards you are displayed as hostile. Might be a good idea to change that .
.
RandomTank
Assoguey (17)
Assoguey (17)
Posted 11 years ago.
WAIT! Don't purchase Boron Trade Stations, they can't store unlimited ships, only 5. The only 2 types of Station you can buy that stores unlimited ships is the Teladi and Argon Trade Stations (unless the EQ dock you can buy have the new models, if they do, you can store unlimited ships there too). But keep in mind, you can only store unlimited FIGHTERS (i.e M5's all the way up to M3+'s, because they use INTERNAL docking), but you can still only hold 5 or 10 T class ships, Bombers or Corvettes (which use EXTERNAL docking). Also, they cost a hell of a lot of money for what they are (a hanger), so if your wanting to use them as energy storage, I would highly recommend using something else (like the idea I said earlier); if you're planning to use them to store many different products, they can be relatively useful, but they can only store a reasonably small amount of each, so aren't massively useful.
I'd suggest starting a new save (I always do this in save slot 10) where you can just use the cheat pack to spawn things in and test them (I do this regularly to test the combat ability of different Capitol ships and how well different load-outs work); but you can just spawn in a Trade station to see the Max capacity of each ware and check if that is enough; if it isn't that will save you a nice chunk of money!
I'd suggest starting a new save (I always do this in save slot 10) where you can just use the cheat pack to spawn things in and test them (I do this regularly to test the combat ability of different Capitol ships and how well different load-outs work); but you can just spawn in a Trade station to see the Max capacity of each ware and check if that is enough; if it isn't that will save you a nice chunk of money!
I will be the one to take you down!
redheart
Eagleguey (11)
Eagleguey (11)
Posted 11 years ago.
Thanks Hammerit I did check this option. RandomTank, thanks for clarifying the storage of the ships for me. Kinda makes no sense now to use that much credits on something that isnt going to really solve my issue. I am going to get my second complex up and split the energy supply up between the two. That will take half the load off the main complex and should end the docking issue. And I will use your thoughts before as well about deactivated buildings. There are some low ore asteroids I can use to store both energy and ore.
Hammerit, Yea I sell the mosquito missiles to the military posts when I get an over abundance of them. I will start doing that with the other missiles too.
Question and I think I have asked this before. Mistral Freighter (not xl) vs Caiman Freighter XL. I have most Caiman for my transporting of energy to my complexes and for shuttling the mineral back and my CAG are Mistrals. I am wondering, would it be better to have Mistrals doing my complex supplying as well? Yes you loose capacity but you gain much more speed but is the extra speed enough to out perform the loss of capacity per trip? How would I figure that out...?
Thanks guys!!
Hammerit, Yea I sell the mosquito missiles to the military posts when I get an over abundance of them. I will start doing that with the other missiles too.
Question and I think I have asked this before. Mistral Freighter (not xl) vs Caiman Freighter XL. I have most Caiman for my transporting of energy to my complexes and for shuttling the mineral back and my CAG are Mistrals. I am wondering, would it be better to have Mistrals doing my complex supplying as well? Yes you loose capacity but you gain much more speed but is the extra speed enough to out perform the loss of capacity per trip? How would I figure that out...?
Thanks guys!!
Hammerit
Stickguey (8)
Stickguey (8)
Posted 11 years ago.
Question and I think I have asked this before. Mistral Freighter (not xl) vs Caiman Freighter XL. I have most Caiman for my transporting of energy to my complexes and for shuttling the mineral back and my CAG are Mistrals. I am wondering, would it be better to have Mistrals doing my complex supplying as well? Yes you loose capacity but you gain much more speed but is the extra speed enough to out perform the loss of capacity per trip? How would I figure that out...?
- redheart
- redheart
In internal ware transfers speed is of no importance at all. However if you acquire wares from external sources say you buy energy cells from random factories in nearby systems then speed is essential. NPC traders compete for the wares you need to keep production running. If they get there before you do stocks will be low when your ship arrives meaning he may have flown there for naught. And nothing is ever worse than an empty trip.
Another thing to keep in mind is how much cargo space the ware needs. If its very much and you need a lot of it at a slow rate it's usually best to pick the ship with the best cargo and acceptable speed. A slower ship with a large cargo bay can get more wares per trip. After your ship is gone it will take a while for the factory to replenish its stocks. And while it does the ware prices will be too high for you to make profits. A slower ship allows you to grab more and gives the station more time to replenish, so it's a win win. Also check if the ware is a primary or a secondary resource for NPC factories. NPCs usually ignore Secondary resources unless their primary stocks are nearly full ... which almost never happens. Secondary means the slower ship is the better option.
Summary: If there's a huge supply of the goods you need, but a lot of competitive traders you should stick with the faster ships. If there's little supply and the ware needs much space, it's usually better to go with the slower ones. The station they traded with will not be available to trade for a while anyways. If you need the ship to transfer wares internally always go with the snail. The bottleneck will be your production speed, your supply ship will most likely idle most of the time anyway.
Another thing: If your complex is positioned in a sector close to high pirate or xenon activity or god forbid even a vanilla war sector it's a very good idea to provide it with an escort. If you need to always take the freighter that best matches the speed of your escort wing. Arriving in one piece is more important than getting a few more crates in the hold. Most NPC competitors won't survive the trip anyway. And if your escort is slower than your freighter and can't follow closely there's not really a point in sending it along is there?
AlphanInfidel
Proguey (12)
Proguey (12)
Posted 11 years ago.
@Redheart............ paranoia aside, if your Cls/Cag instructions supercede previous instructions you just save 'over,' because something has become outdated/surplus to requirements. I've never used all the available slots!
P.S. I posted this before Hammerit's post arrived, and while I would largely agree with what was put forward, you might have to bear in mind that your trained pilots use jump drive, non-player ships don't. So I use captured Demeters....(XL or not).. for rapid transfers, but rely totally on Mistral XL for the bulk of the CLS work, as jumping is immeasurably quicker than just 'sailing,' and the Mistral XL's though quite slow, with 15,000 cargo turns out to be very much faster than the several journeys required by lesser ships.
P.S. I posted this before Hammerit's post arrived, and while I would largely agree with what was put forward, you might have to bear in mind that your trained pilots use jump drive, non-player ships don't. So I use captured Demeters....(XL or not).. for rapid transfers, but rely totally on Mistral XL for the bulk of the CLS work, as jumping is immeasurably quicker than just 'sailing,' and the Mistral XL's though quite slow, with 15,000 cargo turns out to be very much faster than the several journeys required by lesser ships.
I am an Alien!
Hammerit
Stickguey (8)
Stickguey (8)
Posted 11 years ago.
Oh yeah totally forgot about that aspect of vanilla. In my game I changed the AI trader logic to allow for jumping. I thought it a little unfair only the player does it, despite jump drives being available to everyone.
redheart
Eagleguey (11)
Eagleguey (11)
Posted 11 years ago.
@Hammerit I agree with your thought about the AI not being able to jump. It doesn't seem fair to me but since its Vanilla I cant change it.
I got my second main base self sufficient and also is providing energy for two other complexes and that seems to have taken the strain off my main base as no traders have stopped their trade routes at all now. My next major move is to begin to get a decent fleet. I am now looking at getting my next ship. I am looking for your all thoughts on what ship to go with now. I am wondering if I should get a Carrier or something that can deal some damage as I am running into Xenon ships alot and its hard to take on more then 2 Qs and all the support fighters just in my Centuar.
So my question is, what ship should I get next?
I got my second main base self sufficient and also is providing energy for two other complexes and that seems to have taken the strain off my main base as no traders have stopped their trade routes at all now. My next major move is to begin to get a decent fleet. I am now looking at getting my next ship. I am looking for your all thoughts on what ship to go with now. I am wondering if I should get a Carrier or something that can deal some damage as I am running into Xenon ships alot and its hard to take on more then 2 Qs and all the support fighters just in my Centuar.
So my question is, what ship should I get next?
Hammerit
Stickguey (8)
Stickguey (8)
Posted 11 years ago.
A good idea for your next ship would be something with a hangar that's able to equip nonlethal weaponry. That allows you to safely cap ships in hostile sectors. In your situation I'd either use a Guppy or an Elephant. With your cap ship you can start collecting blueprints for your PHQ.
If the marines you've been training are already up for it you could also get your boarding career started. Personally I prefer M7Ms because they allow for more efficient Marine deployment. But a TM does the trick too if you know how to use it. The Cobra is probably the safest choice though. Once you feel you're up for it you can track down a Hyperion. That's a very nice ship to have.
A single M7M can easily solve your Xenon problem. However it requires a solid supply line so it doesn't run out of missiles.
Personally I don't like M2s much. You have to pilot them yourself if you don't want them to commit seppuku every other hour. I usually stick with a Panther (M7) and have a wing of Scimitar or similar M3 escort it. It can easily keep your sector clean just as easily and M3s are much easier to replace than a fully outfitted M2.
The only thing you really need to worry about with the Xenon is the I. That thing can easily smoke entire fleets. The AI usually doesn't even get through the shields before it's wiped out. Luckily the Xenon haven't got many of them flying around and you only ever meet them deep in Xenon space anyways.
If the marines you've been training are already up for it you could also get your boarding career started. Personally I prefer M7Ms because they allow for more efficient Marine deployment. But a TM does the trick too if you know how to use it. The Cobra is probably the safest choice though. Once you feel you're up for it you can track down a Hyperion. That's a very nice ship to have
.
A single M7M can easily solve your Xenon problem. However it requires a solid supply line so it doesn't run out of missiles.
Personally I don't like M2s much. You have to pilot them yourself if you don't want them to commit seppuku every other hour. I usually stick with a Panther (M7) and have a wing of Scimitar or similar M3 escort it. It can easily keep your sector clean just as easily and M3s are much easier to replace than a fully outfitted M2.
The only thing you really need to worry about with the Xenon is the I. That thing can easily smoke entire fleets. The AI usually doesn't even get through the shields before it's wiped out. Luckily the Xenon haven't got many of them flying around and you only ever meet them deep in Xenon space anyways
.
RandomTank
Assoguey (17)
Assoguey (17)
Posted 11 years ago.
M7, definitely. Which one? Your choice! I'd suggest pick a different one from last time, and try to get something that can hold some fighters...
The Panther isn't as good as it used to be (smaller hanger bay, smaller capacity gen), but it's still really good! You can take a lot of FAA making it fearsome against fighters, but you can't really support IBLs for long, so it isn't that amazing against other capitols.
The Deimos is pretty good, amazing Anti-fighter, and pretty amazing against capitols too, as the PSG does huge amounts of AOE damage. Main disadvantage is their range is short at 1.4km, and the Deimos isn't that quick... Great shielding though, so you could just Tank your way there...
The Shrike is fantastic, with really good anti-Capitol ability at long range; IMHO it's not the best anti fighter because it can't support FAA for very long, but with a few interceptor type fighters in its hanger should solve that
The Griffon is alright, very small and is great at dodging fire, and can support a few FAA/CFA for quite a while, giving it great anti-fighter. With its heaviest weapon being CIGs or CFA, it's not going to be destroying capitols any time soon, but it's small size and amazing gen make it a very good M2 escort.
The Cerberus is mental now, having huge amounts of FAA/CFA, I think it probably has the best anti-fighter coverage in the game, with a great gen to power it! It also has the right amount of shielding now! It's a bit slow, and can't really deal with anything above an M7, but 10 fighter in the hanger is very useful!
The Astreus is literally a faster downgrade to the Cerberus, maybe the Raider variant! It loses weapons, hanger space, cargo space and Regen for an extra 31m/s... The choice is yours!
The Panther isn't as good as it used to be (smaller hanger bay, smaller capacity gen), but it's still really good! You can take a lot of FAA making it fearsome against fighters, but you can't really support IBLs for long, so it isn't that amazing against other capitols.
The Deimos is pretty good, amazing Anti-fighter, and pretty amazing against capitols too, as the PSG does huge amounts of AOE damage. Main disadvantage is their range is short at 1.4km, and the Deimos isn't that quick... Great shielding though, so you could just Tank your way there...
The Shrike is fantastic, with really good anti-Capitol ability at long range; IMHO it's not the best anti fighter because it can't support FAA for very long, but with a few interceptor type fighters in its hanger should solve that
The Griffon is alright, very small and is great at dodging fire, and can support a few FAA/CFA for quite a while, giving it great anti-fighter. With its heaviest weapon being CIGs or CFA, it's not going to be destroying capitols any time soon, but it's small size and amazing gen make it a very good M2 escort.
The Cerberus is mental now, having huge amounts of FAA/CFA, I think it probably has the best anti-fighter coverage in the game, with a great gen to power it! It also has the right amount of shielding now! It's a bit slow, and can't really deal with anything above an M7, but 10 fighter in the hanger is very useful!
The Astreus is literally a faster downgrade to the Cerberus, maybe the Raider variant! It loses weapons, hanger space, cargo space and Regen for an extra 31m/s... The choice is yours!
I will be the one to take you down!
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